This is what I would do with schools

[ineedsomemoremetime]

So this is what I would do with primary schools. 1) Open schools to all children. 2) each classroom is their own bubble. The social distancing cannot happen in that classroom. 3) Teachers / TAs /all staff under 45 without underlying health conditions to return to work within these bubbles 4) those over 45 and/or with underlying health conditions support remote learning for those families who (due to vulnerable family members or child) cannot return their children to school 5) Government recruits teachers/TAs/ locum teachers who have previously left or trainee teachers to temporarily fill the gaps of those vulnerable staff members.

Is this a feasible plan? To me it seems a practical solution. Why aren't we considering something akin to this?

My secondary has a number of logistical issues because of size, facilities on site (we have less than 40 working toilets and sinks for example with 2500 students, already 2 sittings for lunch and seperate rooms for packed lunches) staffing is the problem. I, like a lot of my collegues, are leaving this year and we can't recruit. We needed 3 teachers of one core subject and only 2 people applied in May. At Christmas, when the same department advertised, no one applied. We've had long term supply since Chrismtas in lots of departments (including a few in mine), only for the supply to last a week; no one wants to work here! We have so few TAs now that we can't use them, and at least 1 supply agency who will not send us staff after a spate of assaults and abuse form the kids. I honestly feel for my collegues who will be there in September, as we are working online and on rota at the moment with around only 70% of our absolute minimum staffing; once we are back in full time I have no idea what they will do.

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I keep seeing suggestions of teachers who feel unsafe wearing ppe. PPE of the nature that is available to and could be worn in schools, doesn't protect the wearer from catching coronavirus'

It is however the same PPE worn by healthcare staff with Covid-19 positive patients on a medical ward.

It is however the same PPE worn by healthcare staff with Covid-19 positive patients on a medical ward.

My sister works directly with positive patients on a covid ward. She has full PPE to wear-it’s hot and cumbersome to wear.

My school has home made visors which are wonky so that the children and other staff members can breathe directly in your face.

This is clearly not the same.

@HeyBlaby - I honestly can't see teachers having the same PPE as nurses. PPE has to be changed for each patient delt with to be effective. Are teachers really going to change PPE per student? Are there going to be rolls of aprons and boxes of gloves on the walls? I just can't see it being practical.

All kids should now have the option to be at school. I know of many who are now really struggling. The average age of people with Covid on their death certificates is 79.5. The daily figures quoted in the press include deaths from April and May. On the 10 June numbers, only 11 hospital deaths were included for 9 June. Our local school has been open throughout with no virus cases amongst teachers or children. They cannot take anymore kids despite ones wanting to go due to the ridiculous social distancing requirements which are not sustainable.

@ElizabethRT - are you back at work with no social distancing? Or planning to pop to the shops on Monday with social distancing?

Other professions such as refuse collectors, police and firemen have had to work without and not shown increased infection rates. The virus is not going to disappear in September. We have to learn to live with it unfortunately like we do so many others but taking sensible precautions. Our local hospital hasn't had any corona cases in weeks and I have lots of friends who are nurses who say the same in their hospitals.

@ElizabethRT so you’re a refuse collector (working outside and with a very small number of people) or emergency services who are allowed to wear ppe (teachers have specifically been told it’s not needed in schools) or maybe you’re continuing to work from home or are on furlough or are in an office where your desk layout has been changed and ppe/sanitizer/cleaning regimes have been introduced and social distancing is enforced? Living with it in those circumstances is just a little bit safer.

Our local school has been open all the way through with no cases and they have had key worker children who in theory would be higher risk. Children are lower risk than those working with prisoners or people or coming into the supermarkets. In 2017-2018, we had 50,100 excess winter deaths largely driven by influenza including 172 children. These deaths had a much lower average age than those of Covid. We don't close the schools every Winter though. The average age of people dying with Covid is 79.5. Most teachers are not high risk. I have been a teacher before and I would teach in a heartbeat as I have done lots of research on the myths behind the figures. More teachers, doctors, firemen, accountants, etc will suffer more through the recession caused by lockdown and delays in health screening and operations. We didn't lockdown because of the risk this virus poses to the majority of the population.

So where will you be working? Under what conditions? Or are you coming back into the classroom?

Realistically what will happen before September. Is the government will change the guidance re SD etc to allow all schools to reopen normally. The unions will no longer be able to argue its unsafe if this is national guidance that everyone is following.

Parents are already desperate for their kids to see friends/receive an education/be at school during the day so they can work. The unions will therefore have lost the support they once had when they could have negotiated a much better deal for their members...

Schools will reopen. Some staff and children won't return initially... gradually all will.

Schools will never ever shut again!

Schools will shut, just like they do every year as outbreaks occur.

They could do a smaller group say 10 for the children with asthma /diabetes and or parents older or diabetic/asthmatic.
So reverse of key worker bubbles.

But there are 20m in the vulnerable category of which some will be parents. 30 is too much.
But anyway 30 is too much because especially with the first few year groups out of 30 there would constantly be kids with coughs or temps. I doubt a 30 class would get through a 6w half term without popping. (Cp/hfm/uti/ear infections). Most cold end with a cough too.

Put kids in with siblings.
Eg a class of 15 of which they were all siblings so 7 families is lower risk.
Consider in some areas the number of kids with antibodies. So in london 17%+ immune. So they could have larger classes as the immune ones are 'free'.

Social Distancing cannot happen in that classroom? So I can’t go to m and s but I can be in work cheers for that.

Government has to change and then fix its guidelines before schools can plan anything feasible. There’s no point planning for and spending billions of pounds on a return to school for all with 2m distancing if it will be reduced to 1m within a couple of weeks. No point pretending you can even fit 15 children in an average sized classroom with 1m distance between the children and teacher in every direction. No point going on about “schools” as though primary and secondary schools bear any resemblance to each other in manner of teaching and required facilities, let alone in terms of risk profiles with respect to different ages of children and chances of spreading the virus. No point wittering on about TAs doing teaching when schools don’t have enough funding to afford all these imaginary TAs, let alone thousands more teachers, let alone specialists in subjects for secondary level. No point pretending you can teach practical subjects, requiring specialist facilities, effectively and safely whilst maintaining social distancing.

Why this obsession with schools acting like they live in cloud cuckoo land and have all the time and money in the world to write risk assessments that change radically every single week, but are nevertheless busy ordering provisions and recruiting staff for risk assessments that were out of date days after they were written? As for comparing teaching to the NHS - how ludicrous. The NHS was in crisis and had to act quickly, in a very panicked fashion, which it did. It panicked excellently and most NHS services are still in a mess, struggling to get back to normality with colossal waiting lists. Huge sums of money basically spent for a far from ideal result. Yet schools are supposed to have all children back in school by September and are being belligerent not to have phenomenal plans in place already to make this possible? Why can’t the NHS go back to normal, then, if this is so possible? And why can’t airlines operate normally again? And public transport go back to normal? Why is it only schools that people think should live in a fantasy world where Government guidelines can be thrown out of the window and confident and realistic plans can be made for September, with money no object, and limitless resources, space and manpower at schools’ disposal?

I completely agree @Walkaround . Many schools had worked exceptionally hard to plan for the gradual return of more students when it was first announced only for the government to release guidance 4 days after the announcement which said 'no rotas'. Even though we found out later that a week on / week off rota was what SAGE considered to be the safest option.

It is much better for all kids to get some 'in school' education than for some kids to get full time education. If parents knew their children (including all siblings) were in every Monday and Tuesday it would not solve the childcare issue completely but would at least give them a way forward. Similarly for the vulnerable children you would at least get to see them face to face on a regular basis. Wednesday would be the day for all classes to be deep cleaned, teachers to plan, prepare, and mark work, including online stuff and then Thursday and Friday would be for the other half of the school.

Secondary would probably find week on/week off easier but I don't know as much about secondary schools as primary!