This is what I would do with schools

[ineedsomemoremetime]

So this is what I would do with primary schools. 1) Open schools to all children. 2) each classroom is their own bubble. The social distancing cannot happen in that classroom. 3) Teachers / TAs /all staff under 45 without underlying health conditions to return to work within these bubbles 4) those over 45 and/or with underlying health conditions support remote learning for those families who (due to vulnerable family members or child) cannot return their children to school 5) Government recruits teachers/TAs/ locum teachers who have previously left or trainee teachers to temporarily fill the gaps of those vulnerable staff members.

Is this a feasible plan? To me it seems a practical solution. Why aren't we considering something akin to this?

portabins, marquees, portaloos, extra staff, use libraries

Here we go again. There aren't enough portacabins in the country to do this. We can't teach in marquees, just take an experts opinion on this as a done deal. And the 'use libraries' thing....

Nightingale hospitals have been an expensive white elephant on the whole.

**No teacher who has left is coming back. Fact

That’s not true. Plenty of teachers return every year for all sorts of reasons. Lots will have returned from international schools thus tread. Plus fewer teachers have resigned this year than other years- there might even be people wanting to go into teaching who can’t get jobs

Well, as the Govt are planning on everyone being back at school in September, subject to the infection rate being lower, I think they must be planning on whole classes being bubbles. I can't see how it could work otherwise. There just isn't enough spare room in schools. I think that's why they've changed the plan to September - in the hope that the infection rate will be much, much lower by then.

Perhaps the over 45s to decide for themselves if they are happy to return or not. But making this optional is tricky as vulnerable folk could get pressurised to return

@ohthegoats

Trainee teachers need supporting. A LOT. Who is doing that support? If there isn't support then loads of children are being taught by unqualified people.

Also, schools can't afford to do this. That's paying double for every teacher you have off work who is vulnerable.

Especially as this year's cohort of trainee teachers will have only had two school placements instead of three.

Re point 5). You won’t get recently left or retired teachers to come back so maybe just get all the teacher bashers on MN to come and full the gaps and do the teaching? If you were still short add in ofsted inspectors. I mean, all you need is a ‘can-do’ attitude right?

We could film it, I could do with a good laugh at the moment....

Fuck right off. My choice if I return not yours to decide I am too old.

Just to clear up the 'just use libraries' thing, so no one ever needs to mention it again (this is from someone else, not me):

Interesting that people are proposing empty community buildings should be used to enable schools to re-open. A few problems:

1. There are 24,000 schools in England and 8.77m children in them. In groups of no more than 15, we need at least 585,000 spaces to teach them, which is at least 250,000 more than we have. To give a sense of scale - there are 10,000 village halls in England.

2. To run school properly, these spaces need to include early years facilities, science labs, DT suites, art rooms etc. There may be some such spaces vacant outside schools, but there won't be many.

3. In secondary schools at least, moving between specialist spaces is key to teaching the curriculum. Movement of large groups of young people between different locations in a town is presumably a huge problem for Covid transmission

4. Most importantly, staffing is as much of a constraint as space. With at least 585,000 groups of no more than 15 and at least 10% non-contact time, we need at least 650,000 teachers. There are 450,000 people teaching in England. Some of them are clinically vulnerable, so we need about 250,000 extra teachers if children are to be taught in groups of no more than 15. There is no realistic way of getting that number of additional qualified people into schools.

The reality is: we will not be able to open schools fully to all pupils until the public health advice is that it is safe to teach in groups of up to 30. That is what schools have the space and staffing to do.

I hope we do get that advice clearly and unambiguously for September. We'll need it early enough to plan. It will need to be explained to parents and to staff working in schools. We will need a united message about safety from experts and across the political spectrum.

I’m not saying any of this is easy or that teachers or schools could solve it. But if government prioritised education there are options that could be explored. Instead they’ve left it to schools, who are doing their absolute best but can’t fix it within their budgets with constantly changing rules

That’s not true. Plenty of teachers return every year for all sorts of reasons. Lots will have returned from international schools thus tread. Plus fewer teachers have resigned this year than other years- there might even be people wanting to go into teaching who can’t get jobs

Are you a teacher?

How many is 'plenty' - how many are you thinking we need? Some have returned from international schools, I wonder how many?

People who want to get into teaching and can't get jobs, are not the people you want teaching your children.

How does that work for 6th form? DD does an odd combination of subjects so there is little overlap of students between them. So is in contact with 3 classes of 30ish kids. Sits with different kids again at lunchtime.

Ok so the first two points are realistic and likely where things may end up heading if measures are still required in September. The 2m rule has to go anyway and will soon. Although I think smaller groups part time will be favoured over large bubbles full time.

3/4 will be a challenge if the ratios are wrong if schools do not have staff off themselves. Children off school through choice (including through medical choice) may just find there is no work set for them.

As pp have said point 5 just isn't possible. NHS and schools are so different. I think if you've read any of the threads on here over the last 6 weeks you'll get an understanding why there is such a recruitment issue and why those that have left the profession would not return.

ohthegoats

Great, post. I mentally ran the numbers for the primary schools in my small town. We would need an extra 135 classrooms just for the primary schools. And the staff to teach them obviously.

@ohthegoats

Not a teacher but closely allied. The government teacher supply model works on the basis that 50% of teachers entering the profession are returners of one sort or another.(overseas, from independent sector, careers break etc)

There are 50% fewer vacancies this. Qualified teachers will not get jobs

Well i think thats not far from what will happen. First social distancing will be reduced to 1m, then they will lift the cap on 15 per class, routines such as staggered drops, packed lunches at desks and so on will be embedded as will track n trace and closing classes suddenly for isolating purposes will just be part of life. It 'just' leaves staff. Some schools will have significant issues but others wont. Money will be found for supply where possible. We will end up with odd classes where a TA or someone inexperienced is supported by a shielder on teams in the background.

It won’t solve the problem but there are things that could be done to help the situation

So the libraries and village hall idea.
Near my school we have one church hall and one library. There are three other schools within a 15 minute walk of both. Who gets to use them?

Who covers planning time for the teacher if the class is in the whole week - the TA does a half-day on their own? Unless they're a HLTA they're not paid to do that.

And there often aren't enough spaces for different teachers to be doing PPA at the same time whilst observing social distancing. (I'm assuming teachers still get to social distance from each other?!)

In my school, if all the 45 + staff worked from home, there would be less children in than there are now.
No idea, where you think all these additional teachers/TAs are coming from. Perhaps you're including the hairdressers and sport trainers as suggested in another thread in your numbers.
These posts are just getting more ludicrous as time goes on.

@Applekatie I chose 45 as this is the age at which the risks start to step up significantly.

My point is, why aren't the government applying the same thinking and funds towards our schools? We all saw the recruitment drive for the NHS. Why is this any different?

Who covers planning time for the teacher if the class is in the whole week

I’ll bet planning time disappears. With promises to bring it back when life is normal again - except it won’t come back.

@WhenSheWasBad

Who covers planning time for the teacher if the class is in the whole week

I’ll bet planning time disappears. With promises to bring it back when life is normal again - except it won’t come back.

Surely not - it's protected if you're under the Burgundy Book. Although some academies may try it on, I suppose.

Most people who have left teaching won't be chomping at the bit to return.

Secondary students need teaching by specialists and in attainment groups in some subjects.

SallyLovesCheese - i think schools will have 1 or 2 half days to pupils allow for PPA and with social distancing down to 1m there will be room.