This is what I would do with schools

[ineedsomemoremetime]

So this is what I would do with primary schools. 1) Open schools to all children. 2) each classroom is their own bubble. The social distancing cannot happen in that classroom. 3) Teachers / TAs /all staff under 45 without underlying health conditions to return to work within these bubbles 4) those over 45 and/or with underlying health conditions support remote learning for those families who (due to vulnerable family members or child) cannot return their children to school 5) Government recruits teachers/TAs/ locum teachers who have previously left or trainee teachers to temporarily fill the gaps of those vulnerable staff members.

Is this a feasible plan? To me it seems a practical solution. Why aren't we considering something akin to this?

Complete, not co poetry!

ohthegoats why is point 5 a non starter? They did this for the NHS

I don't understand this either. My sister retired from teaching a couple of years ago. She was expecting to get a letter similar to that sent to retired health professionals a few weeks ago when they started talking about schools going back. She assumed they would need for teachers to cover extra classes in spaces outside schools and for online work for shielding children etc.

Schools haven’t been provided with any extra funds to hire extra staff.

Why can we not have remote video conference learning from vulnerable teachers beamed into their classrooms

How exactly do you think five year olds can be taught remotely?
You said this is for primary schools, yes?
Do you think they'll just magically sit there and watch the screen for forty minutes?
What do you think happens in infant schools?

This is almost the same as they did with the NHS, as a retired nurse I also thought that people wouldn’t want to. However I was proved wrong.

That’s not true. Plenty of teachers return every year for all sorts of reasons. Lots will have returned from international schools thus tread.
They’re not really an ex teacher if they’ve just returned from teaching abroad, are they?
I agree that Redundancies in other professions might get a few ex teachers to return, but no where near what would be needed. Most people who leave the profession do so because they absolutely loathe it. Can’t imagine many wanting to start again...

I don't know what the answer is but surely they can make at least some plans? Porta-cabins, recruiting done new staff to at least help.

I can't see why most children can't go back. The long term planning by the schools and the Government has been pitiful. Come on! It's been 3months now!

How receptive are the unions to your proposals OP.
Wasn't that a big issue?

The unions won't let anything go ahead.

Primary schools should open as normal, without assemblies, with cold lunches eaten at desks and with increased hand washing.

5 won't work. There aren't enough staff. Although medics towards the end of their training were brought in, they weren't working on their own. Anyone who thinks it is possible for a teacher to teach a primary class remotely with volunteers supervising has no idea what happens in classrooms.

I keep seeing suggestions of teachers who feel unsafe wearing ppe. PPE of the nature that is available to and could be worn in schools, doesn't protect the wearer from catching coronavirus.

@ScissorsBike I never understand whether people making these comments do it for fun/ to get a response (I've made plenty of tongue in cheek comments on these forums so I understand it) or genuinely believe that.

I think it's a shame if lots of parents actually feel that way. It just shows how easily the government are able to manipulate people and deflect.

well if individuals and heads whose literal job is to solve these problems cant work out how to make this work, i'm not sure why posters who have little or no knowledge of laws and regulations work to think they can solve them.

The first thing that is likely to need to change is the recommended distance cut from 2m to 1m.

I feel like people are stuck as we have allowed an economy/ system where both parents have to work to keep a roof over their heads and often can only do so because the government subsidises pitiful wages via benefits whilst at the same time unions etc are derided for trying to look after member's interests. Due respect to doctors and supermarket workers etc for carrying on working but have they really been rewarded for risking their lives whilst over third of the workforce are being paid by the government to shelter safely at home with probably at least as many wfh?

Looking at sizes of classes which have gone back, they are under ten, from personal expirience, so why not try to get more kids back who want to go, if schools can cope with them.

I think the following:
Primary school- IF they can’t return to normal in September minus assemblies etc, each class MUST accommodate half the class (likely to be 15 pupils) who would operate a 2 week timetable. One week in school, one week out. Half the 15 for the first half of term would be taught by the teacher and the other by TA (who would be paid appropriately on unqualified teacher salary) and then swap and so on. In the week “in” focus on Maths and English, but still time to do other things PE,Art etc. On the week “out” pupils are sent home with activities/worksheets to consolidate and show they’ve learnt the previous weeks work, along with some project type work which would allow creativity eg Romans, Countries of Europe. Pupils would be provided with appropriate resources. The staff member would be available for contact if needed online or telephone and prepare new work for the following week. The fast paced curriculum overwhelms many pupils this would still allow them to learn and achieve but also allow them to be children. If children don’t complete their work (probably the same children that don’t complete homework now the same school sanctions would be in place the week they were in school.Yes lots of logistical problems(working parents the jumps to mind) with this idea but after all as stated in another thread “the children are being forgotten so time they were put first”! The government could support by introducing a universal basic income.

Secondary School- A similar approach. They have a 2week timetable already. One week say 7,9 and half of 11 in then 8,10 and other half of 11 or how it works in each school. Pupils attend their normal class but should be less pupils on site. Pupils in yr7&8 would not study all current subjects. They would be split over the 2 years eg history one year geography the next, with the aim of choosing options end of year 8 ready for a 3 year gcse route.

Separately the government could have looked at changing the whole set up of academic year. They could run it from Jan-Dec for all educational establishments. Pupils would return to their current place/year part time until Jan. All exams would be Oct/Nov,holidays would be altered eg 6week summer reduced to 4, with a 2 week May break and extra week at Xmas. Yr pupils who turn 4 on 31st August would be admitted in the January,meaning all pupils would be at least 4.5yrs. By changing the academic year it gives a chance for things to return to normal but also shakes up an outdated system.

Time to think outside the book after all we are in the 21st century.

From a public health point of view, if you’ve got 30 children from different households mixing in close quarters inside, there’s going to have to be a payoff somewhere.

Also, before we think about a solution, it might be a good idea to work out what the overall aim is. Is it education or getting parents back to work? If children have to have either an education bubble or a childcare bubble, you might find there is less of an uptake for going back to school but what we actually need is more people providing all day childcare.

not sure about the age 45 cut off! I am 46. Fit and healthy. I have been working throughout in my clinical NHS job. If I was a teacher I would be more than happy to return to teach my full class. My DH is a teacher, has been in school some days, is also happy to return to teach full classes as soon as allowed. He is 49, also fit and healthy.

The key to the solution has always been being truthful about what the problem actually is. Is you aim to get all children going back for some of the time, or getting children back so parents can go to work, or getting' vulnerable' children back into school.

Once you know what you are aiming for then it would be easier to find solutions.

If it is just getting all children back for some of the time then you look at part time learning, staggered start and finish times, a rota system.

If you are looking at getting people back to work then you look at increasing the key worker list with 'priority jobs'. Schools could then increase their numbers using the priority list until they are at a safe capacity.

Similarly if it is to support the 'vulnerable' learners then you increase this list with schools inviting students into school who they know need the support of schools.

Until you increase sizes of the bubbles you could never get all children back on anything other than a part time basis. In our village you would need 49 extra classrooms and we have 1 village hall (used for pre school), 1 library, 1 church hall , 1 community centre, 1 football club (used for pre school), 2 rugby clubs and a tithe barn (used for pre school).

point 5 is interesting.
I keep hearing people saying - that will never work and can fully understand that. But I am a doctor. I know lots of doctors and nurses who couldnt wait to get out of the profession due to awful working conditions. Some left to do other things, some retired etc... But when it came to it a LOT came back when asked by the government.

@ScissorsBike

The unions won't let anything go ahead.

Primary schools should open as normal, without assemblies, with cold lunches eaten at desks and with increased hand washing.

Well that’s simply not true. The unions have published a suggested10-point plan to get schools back and working for pupils. It’s the DfE who are not engaging with schools and unions to work together on this.

Do you not think schools/teachers have been debating this for weeks and months - we all have ideas but no-one is engaging schools in discussions.

Also it isn’t acceptable to have ‘cold lunches’ IMO. We have fairly high numbers of children entitled to FSM for many it will be the only hot thing they eat all day.

Half the 15 for the first half of term would be taught by the teacher and the other by TA (who would be paid appropriately on unqualified teacher salary) and then swap and so on
@CKBJ my son's school has one TA per year group (i.e. for three classes) in KS2, with Y6 having no TA at all at present. I don't think it's unusual among junior schools in my authority. Budgets have been cut and cut for the last ten years.

There's lots of ideas out there. However nothing can be planned until the government actually make a decision re September.

The pressure needs to be on the government to make a decision and publicise it. Stop throwing HTs under the bus by changing guidelines every 5 minutes.

We're not stupid, we know a lot of school doubles as childcare.... Lord knows I need it!! The economy is already shot, we don't need mass job loss due to lack of childcare too.

Primary school- IF they can’t return to normal in September minus assemblies etc, each class MUST accommodate half the class (likely to be 15 pupils) who would operate a 2 week timetable. One week in school, one week out. Half the 15 for the first half of term would be taught by the teacher and the other by TA (who would be paid appropriately on unqualified teacher salary)

Fine if every class has a full time TA, but many don’t!

We have a TA in the reception Classes and one TA across the whole of KS1-this would simply never work.

You won’t suddenly be able to find a huge army of TAs either. All of ours became TAs because it fitted in with their children being at our school.

point 5 is interesting.I keep hearing people saying-that will never work and can fully understand that. But I am a doctor. I know lots of doctors and nurses who couldnt wait to get out of the profession due to awful working conditions. Some left to do other things, some retired etc... But when it came to it a LOT came back when asked by the government.

Doctors and nurses have been framed very differently in the media though-they are heroes and angels and came back to ‘save the day’. Clapping, rainbows, thank yous, skipping supermarket queues etc

Teachers I know left the job because it was awful and they were treated abysmally. They aren’t going to get any numbers of people back into schools when everyone is continually saying teachers are leftie workshy whinge bags. There are threads of here daily saying the same thing.

The teachers I know left because they were broken and would not want to put themselves through it all again, for more hatred from all around for all society’s ills. There would be no rainbows or thanks.

I think the government should try though-I’d be interested to see the result, but I think it’s wrong to say that because doctors and nurses came back, teachers will, too. The circumstances are v different.

Doctors and nurses have been framed very differently in the media though-they are heroes and angels and came back to ‘save the day’. Clapping, rainbows, thank yous, skipping supermarket queues etc

Teachers I know left the job because it was awful and they were treated abysmally. They aren’t going to get any numbers of people back into schools when everyone is continually saying teachers are leftie workshy whinge bags. There are threads of here daily saying the same thing.

The teachers I know left because they were broken and would not want to put themselves through it all again, for more hatred from all around for all society’s ills. There would be no rainbows or thanks.

"I think the government should try though-I’d be interested to see the result, but I think it’s wrong to say that because doctors and nurses came back, teachers will, too. The circumstances are v different"

This!!!

But when it came to it a LOT came back when asked by the government.

How many though? To maintain class sizes of 15 (still too many for social distancing in secondary schools) we’d need to double the number of teachers - that’s half a million extra.