This is what I would do with schools

[ineedsomemoremetime]

So this is what I would do with primary schools. 1) Open schools to all children. 2) each classroom is their own bubble. The social distancing cannot happen in that classroom. 3) Teachers / TAs /all staff under 45 without underlying health conditions to return to work within these bubbles 4) those over 45 and/or with underlying health conditions support remote learning for those families who (due to vulnerable family members or child) cannot return their children to school 5) Government recruits teachers/TAs/ locum teachers who have previously left or trainee teachers to temporarily fill the gaps of those vulnerable staff members.

Is this a feasible plan? To me it seems a practical solution. Why aren't we considering something akin to this?

[Hercwasonaroll]

I'm interested in the Romanian model too, how do they staff it?

There are some merits in a shift system at secondary as you could maintain social distancing and prioritise core subjects lower down the school.

Working parents have been completely hung out to dry. We don't have any childcare available at the moment, lord knows what September will be like.

I wish they'd just come out and make a decision. At least then heads can plan.

[SallyLovesCheese]

[quote ineedsomemoremetime]@MoreW1ne yes. But I don't see much government debate going on. What about us working parents who seem to have been left hung out to dry. If we can get a constructive debate going here is that not useful? Will that not eventually reach the government that way?[/quote]
I totally appreciate that debate can be very useful. And I appreciate how measured this one is between those offering suggestions and those of us (sorry!) shooting ideas down!

But as a teacher I find it frustrating because I just get the feeling that, come September, it'll be business as usual in schools but still be social distancing and PPE for everyone else. All these potential solutions will probably be pushed to one side.

[Ilovemyhairbeingstroked]

Whilst many teachers left for a reason , it’s very likely that they maybe made redundant joe, so actually maybe some teachers would return as they may have no choice .

[C33P0]

@SallyLovesCheese
You mean in Romania or here? In Romania at the school I was in, the teachers generally had a morning or afternoon timetable I think, though it could change from day to day.

Here I'm not suggesting that it would solve the teacher problem, but would help reduce density on site, for toilets, playground use etc, as well as helping with drop offs and pickups.

[SallyLovesCheese]

@C33P0

Another thing about vulnerable teachers, is that it is possible to have them social distance from the children, without having the children social distancing from each other. Another option could be teachers to not wear masks of they are standing at the from talking to the class, but to wear a mask if they need to move any closer e.g. to help a particular child with their work.

But don't masks protect other people from the wearer? So if a mask is to protect a vulnerable person, one needs to be worn by everyone around that person.

Although apparently children don't pass this virus on AT ALL. I'm not sure, I keep seeing conflicting information. But if there was a chance they do pass it on, they'd all have to wear a mask to protect the teacher.

[Hercwasonaroll]

To be perfectly honest I'd take going back to school as normal with enforced handwashing every period, strict rules around being in school with symptoms and an online learning offer for those who need it. Unions would lose their minds but parents can't work at the moment and the community incidence is low. At secondary the shit would hit the fan with self isolating, you'll have kids in and out like a yoyo due to mixed classes.

[Walkaround]

Kids in this country do not, by and large, appear to own clothing appropriate for outdoor learning - we aren’t like Scandinavia, where most kids appear to possess genuinely weatherproof, warm clothes. Plenty of children don’t even turn up to school in coats. Would there be extra Government funding to help families or schools purchase clothes suitable for learning outdoors in all weathers, or will lots of kids be going home with hypothermia as we approach winter?

[C33P0]

I think I may have confused people, and should clarify that Romanian schools normally operate a shift system. This is not a response to COVID.

[SallyLovesCheese]

[quote C33P0]@SallyLovesCheese
You mean in Romania or here? In Romania at the school I was in, the teachers generally had a morning or afternoon timetable I think, though it could change from day to day.

Here I'm not suggesting that it would solve the teacher problem, but would help reduce density on site, for toilets, playground use etc, as well as helping with drop offs and pickups.[/quote]
That's so interesting! Do they get to choose if they're morning or afternoon? Do they swap over after a term or an academic year or anything? Do the children swap times at all?

We could do 7am-12pm and 1pm-6pm with an hour for cleaning! I would definitely be an afternoon person.

But yes, doesn't solve the teacher problem.

[ineedsomemoremetime]

@SallyLovesCheese thanks. I feel your frustration. Why can we not have remote video conference learning from vulnerable teachers beamed into their classrooms with Ta/parent volunteer support supplemented by a teacher who is shared between both classes so that 2 teachers run the 2 classes, one from home and one on person with additional support? Is that a ridiculous suggestion? Let's assume government support and funding here to set up the IT. Why aren't they considering this kind of option?

[C33P0]

I guess it varies from school to school, but where I was they could have a morning shift one day, and an afternoon shift the next day. The children, on the other hand, would have the same pattern every day for that school year, but might switch to the opposite pattern the following year.

[mollypuss1]

When did 45 become old and vulnerable?

[SallyLovesCheese]

@C33P0

I guess it varies from school to school, but where I was they could have a morning shift one day, and an afternoon shift the next day. The children, on the other hand, would have the same pattern every day for that school year, but might switch to the opposite pattern the following year.

Can you imagine being a parent with a kid on the morning shift for a year and you are NOT a morning person?

[Valenciaoranges]

@Inercsomemoremetime - why should teachers over 45 stay at home? I’m mid 50s and just as fit and healthy as my younger colleagues, plus I have a lot more stamina...only the very vulnerable should self isolate.

[ineedsomemoremetime]

@mollypuss1 OK we could make it 50. But based on what I've read the risks start to step up at 45. Here's a bbc chart illustrating the risk by age.

[ineedsomemoremetime]

@valenciaoranges I know. I'm a T1 diabetic and I don't feel vulnerable. But the evidence says I am. Ditto the over 45s (or over 50s).

[LavenderLilacTree]

Because the government are trying to keep the R number down and save LIVES.

[SallyLovesCheese]

[quote ineedsomemoremetime]@SallyLovesCheese thanks. I feel your frustration. Why can we not have remote video conference learning from vulnerable teachers beamed into their classrooms with Ta/parent volunteer support supplemented by a teacher who is shared between both classes so that 2 teachers run the 2 classes, one from home and one on person with additional support? Is that a ridiculous suggestion? Let's assume government support and funding here to set up the IT. Why aren't they considering this kind of option?[/quote]
I do like the idea of all the technology that could be used more and better in some way.

I guess the issue with this is that the teacher at home "just" does teacher input for each lesson, then hangs around to answer questions or whatever. The teacher in school is run ragged doing all the photocopying, marking, running interventions, assessment for learning etc. for two classes. Then they'd have to feed back to the teacher at home AND prepare all the lessons for the following day.

Sorry to shoot another idea down. I'm really not usually so negative. But I really can't see a way out of this mess right now.

[ineedsomemoremetime]

@SallyLovesCheese shoot away. Would the teacher not be OK if they had a TA and or parent helper too? Or am I being naive?

[SallyLovesCheese]

[quote ineedsomemoremetime]@SallyLovesCheese shoot away. Would the teacher not be OK if they had a TA and or parent helper too? Or am I being naive?[/quote]
Yes, naive. Sorry!

[CaspianSeaDog]

Imagine the threads complaining about randomly recruited and unsupervised teachers...that should go well...

[mollypuss1]

@ineedsomemoremetime what have you read that states risks step up at 45? I’ve never read that anywhere. The chart you’ve added doesn’t highlight a substantial extra risk at 45. Imperial college have estimated the infection fatality rate at 45 to be 0.15% , even at 55 it’s only 0.6%.

[Valenciaoranges]

@Ineedsomemoremetime - fair point. I just don’t have any fear of the virus and think we all need to get back to work. I don’t know what the solution is to mitigate the staff/parent fears and then deal with the education of our young people. I’m lucky as my school has provided 100% live lessons via teams with near 100% attendance (indie), so it doesn’t really affect me, but I hate the fact there seem to be so many obstacles to going back and very little tangible support or solutions from government, .

[ineedsomemoremetime]

@mollypuss1 yes I know, risks between the ages of 45 and 50 and 55 etc are low compared to the older age groups. Look, I suggested 45 to get the ball rolling. But obviously that doesn't mean it has to be 45, just an age agreed with the unions etc that is deemed the cut off point for risk. Heres an ons chart but this one just has different bandings. I'll see what else I can find that I recall seeing related to my suggested age 45 cut off

[Howaboutanewname]

Romanian primary schools do this, with the early shift in school from 7.30am - lunchtime, and the later shift from lunchtime - 7.30pm

A shift system of some kind is going to be inevitable in secondary. However, do you expect staff to work 12 hour days and co poetry planning, marking and assessments?