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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 10

966 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2020 19:35

Welcome to thread 10 of the daily updates.

Resource links:

Worldometer UK page
Financial Times Daily updates and graphs
HSJ Coronavirus updates
Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Centre
NHS England stats, including breakdown by Hospital Trust
Covidly.com to filter graphs using selected data filters
ONS statistics for CV related deaths outside hospitals, released weekly each Tuesday

We welcome factual, data driven, and civil discussions from all contributors 💐

OP posts:
Thread gallery
90
alreadytaken · 20/06/2020 19:50

What most people tend to overlook is that socio-economic status does not, in itself, cause poor health. It is a proxy for other things like income. It can also be argued that it's also a proxy for low vitamin D levels.

academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/104/12/1065/1545355

The best way to find out if it significant for Covid-19 is to run intervention studies. There are 2 underway that I know about, there may be more.

For those interested in whether they are deficient - at this time of year it's very unlikely unless you spend most of your time indoors, are mostly covered up when outside or are very dark skinned. The NHS currently recommends a small supplement for everyone between October and March www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ but if you holiday abroad in winter you might not need it.

It's possible to pay privately for a test here www.vitamindtest.org.uk Other tests are available but I know that lab produces good results. If you'd like to know your level I'd suggest testing in winter because very few people will be deficient now.

whatsnext2 · 20/06/2020 20:19

The Covid Zoe app is investigating differences in glucose metabolism, which has been shown to differ in different ethinicities.eg people from south Asian communities have up to 6 times risk of developing diabetes.
covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-blood-sugar-inflammation

tootyfruitypickle · 20/06/2020 20:49

@Firefliess as I keep repeating on this site. There has been one small study about vit a being higher risk. It’s not a statistical link yet.

tootyfruitypickle · 20/06/2020 20:53

Not vit a. Blood type a! I don’t want to start an entire new statistical link theory !

ShootsFruitAndLeaves · 20/06/2020 21:45

Shoots, forgive me if I am missing something obvious (I am going to blame menopause brain...😂). Does your last post concur that BME populations are at greater risk, is that irrespective of other (known) factors? Previous threads had all but convinced me that this was not so, especially when you consider the number of BME people working within the NHS and Care sectors.

Well a couple of things but we have an employment study www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/deathsregistereduptoandincluding20april2020 and the BME people working in the NHS are irrelevant to the larger picture, since NHS staff are at no greater risk than the population as a whole.

I think they have been highlighted because dead nurses make more emotive stories than dead taxi drivers, but the latter group has far more deaths.

As far as care workers go, that's an excess risk for men but not for women. But most care workers are women. The raw number of excess male care worker deaths is around 30 people, which wouldn't explain things at all.

We have seen that things like factories and slaughterhouses actually have a much higher risk of infection, and it's obvious that all ethnicities are not equally likely to be lawyers (very low risk of infection & death) and factory workers (high risk), for example.

People working in routine jobs are not only more likely to have been infected because of the nature of their work, but also are more likely to be in poor health. Teachers and doctors are generally healthier than the population as a whole, while people in the lowest-paid jobs unhealthier, more likely to smoke, etc.

Anyway, we know:

  • ethnic minorities are relatively more urban in residence than white people, which increases infection risk
  • ethnic minorities do different jobs from white people, some of which have higher infection risk
  • ethnic minorities are more likely to live in larger family units, which increases infection risk
  • ethnic minorities are more likely to be morbidly obese, which seems to have been a very significant factor in young people's covid-19 deaths (which hit the headlines), but is not so important for older people
  • ethnic minorities are more likely to have diabetes, which has been shown to increase risk

Overall ethnic minorities are much more likely to have been infected. We don't know if this is because of social, religious, leisure and cultural practices beyond employment differences, but it seems from the example of Jews that this is likely. It is not obvious that Jews tend to do work with increased risk of infection, and it might be that religious practice has spread the illness.

It would be likely that cultural practices in ethnic minorities also did some of the infection spreading, especially if we consider that the virus essentially infected millions of people by late March, so a lot of the spread would have been entirely unconscious since probably to whatever extent people mixed with others or don't, during normal times, they would have done so up to a point late in the spread.

It's possible of course that more educated people took earlier steps to distance themselves, and I know that Muslims and Christians in some countries have said that religious practice is more important than covid-19 risk avoidance, and it's reasonable to assume that up to the point where it was illegal, religious people were continuing communal activities, since these activities were both legal and important to these people.

I'm not sure specifically why black people are most likely to have been infected with covid-19, but it follows that they caught it from work, family, or leisure.

Once one adjusts out the much higher likelihood of infection, if there is any extra risk of death following infection, it will be relatively less important than sex and much less important than age.

It has been theorised in this thread that because black and south Asian people produce less melanin, they are at greater risk of dying from covid-19. This might be distinguished from the greater risk that certain ethnicities have of diabetes, which I assume is more linked to diet, albeit that poor people generally have worse diets and greater risk of diabetes, in that a lack of melanin is biological to being black, whereas eating chapatis say, is not. Indeed lots of countries have had drastic dietary changes (for the worse) in a few decades.

There doesn't seem to be robust evidence that black or south Asian people are more likely to die following covid-19 infection, and indeed while they are more likely to have contracted covid-19 in the past, that's not necessarily the case in the future as people go back to work and leisure, and covid-19 is well dispersed and potentially worse now in Hull compared to Hackney, which was not true at all at the height of the pandemic.

ShootsFruitAndLeaves · 20/06/2020 21:46

It has been theorised in this thread that because black and south Asian people produce less melanin, they are at greater risk of dying from covid-19.

i.e. because of consequent weak vitamin D synthesis

BigChocFrenzy · 20/06/2020 21:51

Blood type A is the most common in several countries which have low death rates for COVID

e.g. Scandi / Nordic countries, Germany, Japan, S Korea
(no German "dark matter" there)

whereas the most common type in the Uk and Italy is O

However, maybe blood group A correlates also with a better chance of competent governments which compensates Wink

OP posts:
tootyfruitypickle · 20/06/2020 21:54

@whatsnext2 I take your point ! I haven’t read them obviously but I have done quite a lot of research with a previous illness I had where the outcome was supposedly worse with blood type A and it didn’t stand up at all. It would take a very significant amount of data to convinced that blood type is ever a real link to a medical outcome. Other factors are always going to outweigh it.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/06/2020 21:56

Black & S Asian people have a higher risk of T2 than whites of the same weight,
hence their healthy BMI is set at a lower level

iirc it is due to different fat distribution around the body, even when on the same diet

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/06/2020 21:58

Firm evidence that insulin metabolism / disorders affect the severity of COVID

OP posts:
whatsnext2 · 20/06/2020 22:05

@tootyfruit I think the problem with covid is that it can take such a wide variety of infectious pathways from the cardiovascular to the skin, that no single factor will be the answer. Glucose metabolism, adipose fat, vitamin d , blood group, ace2 receptors, previous immune history, all could be involved.

ShootsFruitAndLeaves · 20/06/2020 22:21

Black & S Asian people have a higher risk of T2 than whites of the same weight, hence their healthy BMI is set at a lower level
iirc it is due to different fat distribution around the body, even when on the same diet

Due to multiple different factors.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3715105/

In South India, intake of polished white rice, with a high glycemic index, have been linked to T2DM prevalence after adjusting for potential confounders.90 The typical South Asian diet is high in carbohydrates, trans fats, and saturated fat.91 A comparative study reported higher overall caloric intake, as well as a greater percentage of carbohydrate content in a typical South Asian meal, compared with standard European meals.

A study from the UK comparing the dietary intakes South Asian, black African-Caribbean, and white European children reported higher total energy intake among South Asian children compared with white Europeans, but lower intake of vitamin C, D, calcium, and iron

South Asians appear to be even less physically active than their Caucasian counterparts.85,86 A systematic review of studies describing levels of physical activity and fitness in UK South Asians identified 12 studies examining physical activity in adults. The differences in physical activity levels in South Asians, compared with general the population, were substantial; South Asian groups reported physical activity levels that were 50–75% lower than those of Europeans.87 These results are similar to those from a study analyzing data from the Newcastle Heart Project, indicating that 52% of European men did not meet current guidelines for physical activity, compared with 71% of Asian Indians, 88% of Pakistanis, and 87% of Bangladeshis.88

On a global scale, the prevalence of low birth weight is highest in the South Asian region, with India accounting for nearly 40% of global low-birth-weight infants.65 Maternal undernutrition during pregnancy is a known cause of low birth weight,66 and it is possible that such fetal undernutrition may increase the risk of T2DM development later in life. Prospective studies from India have shown that participants who were underweight as children had a high prevalence of overweight, obesity, and central obesity as young adults.

There are lots of multinationals killing people all over the globe with their shit food, but especially in Asia. They like to sell powdered milk for children which is packed with sugar

E.g.

www.protinex.com/product/protinex-junior/ (India)

protein:fat:carbohdrate ratio (grams)
1:0.82:3.34

compare to semi-skimmed milk

1:0.5:1.33

i.e. there's almost 3 times more sugar in the shit promoted to people in Asian countries to 'make kids smart'

These powdered milks are incredibly popular in developing countries and one of the first oversweet steps on a road to a lifetime of diabetes and illness.

NeurotrashWarrior · 21/06/2020 08:27

There will be so many variables. Eg I was looking at ACE2 receptors and asthma. I wondered if there was any difference between atopic and nonatopic asthma.

Allergic asthma and allergies appear to reduce ACE2, especially following allergen exposure. But not in non allergic asthma. (Basically less ACE2 = less chance of actually catching it.) On top of this, being male, of "African American ethnicity and a history of diabetes mellitus are associated with an elevated ACE2 and TSMPRSS2 mRNA expression." Inhaled corticosteroids seems to reduce ACE2 in asthmatic patients, hence its important to keep them up if on them.

At the same time, there are so many other factors and ways the body is affected by this disease, it won't always be clear cut.

alreadytaken · 21/06/2020 12:34

There are now at least 20 studies examining whether vitamin D is important, some due to report in the next few months. By October we'll have a better idea of whether winter supplementation is merely beneficial to health (why the NHS currently recommends it) or crucial. I forgot to mention Inflammatory bowel disease as something that can make you low in vitamin D, the oral sprays would be good for those with ibd.

As for blood type A - the scientific approach to this is to say is there a plausible biological reason why this might be relevant. Answer - yes, blood type A is more likely to have sticky blood (there may be other reasons). Is there anything the average person with blood type A can do about it - answer increase the amount of omega 3 in your diet. So if you like oily fish now is a good time to eat more of it and if you are vegeatarian I believe flaxseed is a good source.

Cherryghost · 21/06/2020 12:43

@NeurotrashWarrior Please could you tell me if kids with allergic asthma are more at risk?
I've read your post but I'm not sure what you mean. My fault I'm tired and been up all night!
But I'd be great full if you could clarify as I have a son with allergic asthma and I thought he would be higher risk

Firefliess · 21/06/2020 12:56

@cherry - I think the consensus is that most asthmatics do not appear to be at any increased risk of bad outcomes - see www.cebm.net/covid-19/asthma-and-covid-19-risks-and-management-considerations/.

The shielding advice for severe asthmatics is due to the effects of some of the medications they need to take, not the asthma itself.

But I'm not familiar with the details that @neurotrashwarrier is describing, so hopefully (s)he can explain that better.

NeurotrashWarrior · 21/06/2020 13:26

It's all v complicated as far as I can see; research that I'll post below was within the context that fewer asthmatics than they'd expect were being admitted to hospital, but they're still at an increased risk. So they've started to try to unpick why.

It's still an increased risk though and all looks theoretical, and that they can't work out yet why or what.

I'd also always speak to the Gp. My Gp said my son, 7, who has non allergic asthma and is on a brown inhaler (but could drop it at the height of summer) has no increased risk than any other child, which is very low. Oral steroids are known to weaken the immune system, but they think the inhaled ones might reduce the chance for the virus to take hold.

The ACE2 receptors seem be how the virus can enter cells (and are in many organs); at the same time they can also have something to do with limiting the inflammatory damage. But it seems to be a tiny part of the bigger puzzle, eg prior immunity to any similar coronavirus could play a factor or other mechanisms.

It still presents with more queries though than it answers. Another article I saw detailed the start of a 6mo study on children with asthma and Covid; basically there are so many unknown answers to questions.

www.healio.com/news/pulmonology/20200501/asthma-in-certain-patients-elevates-risk-for-worse-covid19-outcomes

.

Children seem to have fewer ACE2 receptors:

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766522

.

www.atsjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1164/rccm.202005-1651ED

.

www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(20)30551-0/fulltext

NeurotrashWarrior · 21/06/2020 13:30

I can't work out what's been peer reviewed or not either.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2020 14:02

Pollen is documented to be antiviral and allergenic, to play a role in immuno-activation
and seems to create a bio-aerosol lowering R0 of viruses with respiratory transmission

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.05.20123133v1

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NeurotrashWarrior · 21/06/2020 14:29

That's interesting.

I do feel things will be a little different in the winter for a lot of reasons. Air pollution is another factor that's occasionally been mentioned as a risk factor for more infection, which is often worse in the U.K. in the winter in areas where it's a known problem.

I'm sure a second wave can be avoided but it may been localised reactions to restrictions, increasing SD as needed.

whatsnext2 · 21/06/2020 18:15

Study of over 2M participants in Uk and USA to investigate racial and ethnic determinants of Covid 19 risk.
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.18.20134742v1

Found that even after adjusting for other risk factors including co-morbities and sociodemographic factors still significant disparities.

Hoping that this might count as sufficiently‘robust’ research for the Katie Hopkins type statistical manipulators on this thread.

sleepwhenidie · 21/06/2020 20:10

Does anyone know of a resource to look at excess deaths in the US please? Lots of Trump supporters seem to be taking the line about increased testing being the only reason for increased cases and also claiming deaths are being falsely attributed to covid in order to get government funds? I have serious doubts but searched a bit for excess death information but I’m not really getting anywhere for the US....

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2020 20:41

Sleep Excess deaths here, for all USA and for the individual states:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/investigations/coronavirus-excess-deaths-may/

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 10
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2020 20:42

Better link - you can browse for free a limited number of times:

data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Excess-Deaths-Associated-with-COVID-19/xkkf-xrst/

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