Can’t see how children will be able to go back to school in 2021

[Ouchy]

Let’s face it. The R0 may not be controlled for months. Vaccine unlikely until 2021. Teaching unions up in arms. People unwilling to accept the risk of the virus (low for many). I’m getting more and more concerned and the government haven’t published any forward plans for how school can be restarted in the various scenarios we may be facing come September (have they?). What on earth are the DfE and the Education Secretary doing during the working week if they’re not planning this stuff? Is there something I’ve missed - am I mistaken? I’m getting more and more concerned. The children are low risk - there needs to be a plan and fast as their educations and social development are being kind of ignored for something they’re super low risk for as individuals themselves. Looking for reassurance really - am I mistaken or being silly?

Because most teachers, like most of the population are under 45 and are simply not at risk from the disease. The risks are only high for the retired. I am all for a short, sharp lockdown but not for destroying the lives of children and young people for something that poses no risk to them. That is complete madness and totally disproportionate.

If they make school officially optional there will be tens of thousands of vulnerable children who fall under the radar, who never go back to school, who never get educated, who get educated at home by extremes of their culture, who get trafficked, sold or exchanged on the dark web, who get abused and violated, or who die as a direct result of inadequate school structures.

What they are proposing is simply a horrifying alternative for many innocent kids for whom school is their only sanctuary.

And please do not tell me these kids are being looked after in the hubs right now. Maybe the lucky few.

Nihiloxoca we aren’t changing education forever or changing the social contract forever or taking away the right to free universal education forever. This is a temporary response to a crisis. If we destroy education in response to it, when we come through the pandemic what do we have left??

Nihiloxica

If we are tearing up the social contract by removing children's right to a full time education, then that will completely change what schools are, their importance in our society, and their levels of funding.

The contract hasn't changed, it never stated that the education had to be in schools.

And as an affect of you changing the terms and conditions you will be making life harder for a lot of parents.

So by September I would like proper online education in place or a sum of money from the govt so I can purchase education online for my children

There are so many children who would be harmed by that. Online education can be fabulous as a supplementary thing and is an adequate option for children too unwell to be at school if they have a health problem. Otherwise it's nowhere near good enough. Children need to be around other children. They need to be around other adults. They need to learn social skills and to have the time and space to form an identity that is separate from their parents and siblings. They need science labs and drama classes and access to computers and children being abused need a few hours of safety a day.

There is no way online education is enough.

Is this a toll you'd be happy to accept?

Right now? If I'm totally honest? Yes. I would.

And saying "ten times the amount" is still really because a neighbouring country could have 1 death and them 10....

I know they've had 5000 ish?

But a bad economy means more deaths. Worse health outcomes. Substandard education will do our children no favours. It'll do parents no favours. There will be more homelessness and suicide. More abuse going unnoticed.

As a parent, I honestly think we have to think about the children now. Weve locked them away for long enough.

*No, I'm just asking you to name a country that has schools back without social distancing. Only impossible if none have

Sweden?!

But somehow they don't count apparently.*

According to the OECD the average class size in Sweden is 19. They also have much bigger classrooms and have spaced desks out accordingly. Social distancing is in place with lack of assemblies, staggered breaks etc and they also have a culture of outdoor learning which they have been advised to expand. They have taken measures we cannot take here as our class sizes are 30 and our rooms are tiny, especially in new builds since Michael Gove decreased the minimum space allowances again. Not to mention our tiny outdoor spaces as the playing fields and land were all sold off. They also haven't cut their Education funding to the point where pencils are rationed. Additional staff are being used where necessary too. So really not the same at all.

My year10 child is completely demoralised. Everyday he sits at the lap top and down loads worksheets, completes them and puts them in a pile on his desk. That is brain dead boring for him. He has done 11 weeks of this. I work full time from home. My work is pushing for staff to stop caring for children and send them back to school. We are being told that we will need to start using our leave or take unpaid leave for our child care responsibilities. My organisation says schools are open and therefore parents need to now deal with it. So what do we do? We have 5 weeks until the summer holidays and so far 11 weeks of very little school work. A school year is 39 weeks and by the summer 41% of the school term will have been spent at home being educated by me, his mum.

Those of you saying vaccines will be here by September...How long do you think they take to develop?

I thought I’d read recently that the mumps vaccine was the fastest one ever developed and that took 4 years.

@CaptainBrickbeard

Nihiloxoca we aren’t changing education forever or changing the social contract forever or taking away the right to free universal education forever. This is a temporary response to a crisis. If we destroy education in response to it, when we come through the pandemic what do we have left??

I fear the government will see this as a change.

My company are already talking about how my work will change post Covid. And it's radical. Half the amount of central office space and at least 40% WFH for all.

If you don't think the same thing could happen to education. Well the longer it goes on and the more changes that happen to accomodate it the more likely it will become the new normal.

Fuck sake. So what, we never re open schools because there is no comparable country and we are too sodding scared?

Excellent.

Let's just throw our children right under that bus because we haven't watched another country do it first.

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair oh I agree it isn't enough. But it is better than the "fuck all" teaching my children are getting at the moment. They haven't heard their teachers voice. They get Twinkl worksheets and links to BBC bitesize and a "like" if they upload something. And that's on a good day.

And yes I took over the education and we enjoyed it but they missed their teachers and their classmates and combined with me and DH doing full-time jobs that are critical to the emergency response I was near burnout. So now I am paying for their education but the school is presumably also bring paid to educate them whilst delivering essentially nothing.

Totally agree Genie.

loulouljh

Actually, you would be surprised. We were having a discussion the other day about an alternative location for the local after school childcare - for a maximum of 70 children - in the local community.

We could identify not a single space.

To accommodate the children from the community's 3 state schools serving primary school age children, it would need 28 spaces, each big enough to accommodate a 'bubble' of 15, and each equipped with basic equipment for that bubble to learn at least as well as their peers in school classrooms - computer, probably some kind of projector and whiteboard, storage - toilets, somewhere to wash hands many times per day, preferably some kind of outside area, obviously good air flow.

That's before you start on the secondary school, who for half class sizes would need another 50-60 spaces.

@Appuskidu

Those of you saying vaccines will be here by September...How long do you think they take to develop?

I thought I’d read recently that the mumps vaccine was the fastest one ever developed and that took 4 years.

You are right this is typical. A vaccine in 2020 isn't likely. Although more resources are being thrown at it than anything else I've seen so it's not off the table.

I think over the summer I would hope there will be technological investment in schools for a proper (part time) home schooling support system, possibly live online classes. They will have had the notice, infrastructure, time & experience to plan it by then. I think we have to cut the schools some slack for what was an emergency unforeseen situation (by schools not government). Personally I'm in the minority in that I think tailored home tutoring is really beneficial for academic progress even if it most of it is playing fun educational games online by themselves & reading (probably giving an hour max of tutoring time a day) but I get it's been really hard for the majority.

Weve locked them away for long enough.

Not round this neck of the woods. As far as I can see, they've been madly socialising more than they would at school. The local parks are teeming.
And loads of those who took the week off school before we even closed because "unsafe," were mostly seen out and about enjoying the sunshine with their mates. There's quite a high correlation between that and those who are not engaging with the (excellent) work we've been setting (and praised for by many parents).

A school year is 39 weeks and by the summer 41% of the school term will have been spent at home being educated by me, his mum

He is lucky to have that. My year 10 has had the support of fantastic teachers (which he is very lucky to have) but then he has to be at home all day on his own doing the work. It is not the teachers at fault for him not being able to be in school though, it can't be any different right now.

More children will die from suicide due to lockdown than from the virus. But they don’t count apparently.

Not round this neck of the woods. As far as I can see, they've been madly socialising more than they would at school. The local parks are teeming
And loads of those who took the week off school before we even closed because "unsafe," were mostly seen out and about enjoying the sunshine with their mates
There's quite a high correlation between that and those who are not engaging with the (excellent) work we've been setting (and praised for by many parents)

So they really need to be back in school right?

Cos it's only gonna get worse for them isn't it? The gap is only gonna get bigger?

TrustTheGeneGenie

We have two areas of the country that the R value is above one.

We have major protests going on at the moment and a government that won't consider local arrangements for schools.

TBH, I can't see us going back anytime soon, and FYI none of it is due to teachers or the unions.

I’m beginning to think that dying from Covid is preferable to living like this.

That's a bit crass, to say the least.

I think over the summer I would hope there will be technological investment in schools for a proper (part time) home schooling support system, possibly live online classes

What happens to children with two working parents?

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Fuck sake. So what, we never re open schools because there is no comparable country and we are too sodding scared?

Excellent.

Let's just throw our children right under that bus because we haven't watched another country do it first.

Sadly the country is paralysed by hysterical rabid fear

TBH, I can't see us going back anytime soon, and FYI none of it is due to teachers or the unions

So what is it down to? Because the government are making a start to getting some children back and it's the union's that are crying about it?

Whether the R is above one or not this cannot continue.