Can’t see how children will be able to go back to school in 2021

[Ouchy]

Let’s face it. The R0 may not be controlled for months. Vaccine unlikely until 2021. Teaching unions up in arms. People unwilling to accept the risk of the virus (low for many). I’m getting more and more concerned and the government haven’t published any forward plans for how school can be restarted in the various scenarios we may be facing come September (have they?). What on earth are the DfE and the Education Secretary doing during the working week if they’re not planning this stuff? Is there something I’ve missed - am I mistaken? I’m getting more and more concerned. The children are low risk - there needs to be a plan and fast as their educations and social development are being kind of ignored for something they’re super low risk for as individuals themselves. Looking for reassurance really - am I mistaken or being silly?

[Pikachubaby]

Dutch kids are back at school too

[Sleeprocks]

In our area they are doing 2days a week for returnees, on the basis that Weds is needed for cleaning. Why can't cleaners come in Tuesday night?. Why is one of the posters saying she cleans in her lunch hour? Cleaners are quite cheap. Many office and home cleaners are out of work. If there are 15kids in a class then workload could be shared with swapping out with teacher assistant and volunteers or After school club staff half the time -so half time solid, quality work, half time supervised -at least for primary which performs a key childcare role for workers (secondary is harder). Let's sequester town halls or working men's clubs or sports halls if space is an issue and government should find mobile classrooms. I just don't think we are doing enough out the box thinking. I appreciate some teachers are working flat out with kids in class now, setting remote work and key worker kids but some are not. My niece's teacher sends a list of remote work one a fortnight and phones once a month and teaches no lessons in person - the school has no keyworker classes. She has her own kids - so we all do -but have to do our jobs as well, by catching up late at night. Isn't the litmus test here private schools who are providing face to face online, regular calls with parents and even online clubs and plays etc

[FrippEnos]

I love the stupidity of those that say "Make them redundant" and "reduce teacher's pay".

Firstly who will teach your kids when everything goes back to normal?
The law states that you cannot employ someone for a position that has been made redundant for 6 months.
Second do you really think that those that have been made redundant will rush back in to a job where they were treated so poorly?

As for reducing money, the terms and conditions of the contracts in state schools would have to be completely rewritten.

Unless of course you made the teachers part time, but then they/we would work the hours set.

[BakewellTarts]

I think the Oxford vaccine is currently being tested in Brazil because our community infection rates are so low that it can't be tested here. With other vaccine programmes I'm not ruling out a vaccine in 2020 although it would be super speedy if it was created by the end of the year.

The point about infection rates is a good one though. According to the ONS they almost halved last week so it could be miniscule shortly.

[CallmeAngelina]

Part time school stays, but we only need teachers for half the time.

Did I really just read that? Are you really so hard-of-thinking that you can't see that whilst your child might only receive half the time in school, the teacher will be there full-time, teaching THE OTHER HALF OF THE CLASS!
Jesus!

[Bollss]

Well, no country is directly comparable with another, is it?

So what you are asking for is impossible, as well you know.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

@Pikachubaby

Dutch kids are back at school too

with half classes, not what I asked

[loulouljh]

Sleeprocker, I couldn't agree more. We have empty village halls, town halls, cinemas, churches, sports centres etc etc. With a bit of thought and will there is the pace to accommodate children. Why is this not happening?

[Uhoh2020]

Christ! In my opinion teachers need a pay rise not a pay cut! What they normally do on a day to day basis is incredible and what they continue to do behind the scenes after the school day Is finished Is so often forgotten. So they're not doing the job in the normal conditions they signed up for but many of us are still doing a job in different circumstances now. Teachers are worth their weight in gold and we would all be lost without them have some respect.

[Bollss]

The guy who came up with swedens policy has admitted it was a mistake. Any others?

Yeah because what we're doing is brilliant isn't it? Still thousands of deaths but ooh look a bonus we've fucked up all the children too.

In a few years I think Sweden will be feeling rather smug.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Well, no country is directly comparable with another, is it?

So what you are asking for is impossible, as well you know.

No, I'm just asking you to name a country that has schools back without social distancing. Only impossible if none have.

[twinnywinny14]

At least the welsh system allows for all year groups to return for some schooling across the week, the English system has basically maxed out with 3 year groups by not allowing a rota system. Some schools haven’t managed those 3 yr groups (not inc the ones not choosing to because of safety concerns). So unless we can go back to full class sizes then we can only increase by a year group or 2 returning to school but will never manage the full school

[Bollss]

No, I'm just asking you to name a country that has schools back without social distancing. Only impossible if none have

Sweden?!

But somehow they don't count apparently.

[LyndaLaHughes]

Why would any teacher in their right mind, rush into a class of 30 in the height of a pandemic? I like my job, but not enough to risk my life for it.

Exactly. Name me another job where you are with large groups (mine is 15) who cannot social distance with no PPE whatsoever? Or whom you cannot social distance from. I can't see my own family members outside my household as the risks are too high and we are a danger to them. Then you are deemed to be lazy or unconcerned about children's education when you aren't overjoyed about it? Seriously? I'm so sick of it.

[cantkeepawayforever]

Sleeprocks,

I and all my colleagues are doing 4 days in school with returned year groups / keyworker children, and 1 day at home for a) planning and delivering online education, including live contact, for our own classes (not in school yet) and b) our normal PPE time (as no other adult can teach in our 'bubble')

So yes, it is an opportunity for cleaning, but it is also necessary for the school to continue to deliver online education for the rest of the school AND to avoid cross contamination between bubbles. We are really trying to void any more than 1 bubble having to close down if anyone is ill - so the only people who enter more than 1 classroom are the cleaners, who wear PPE and only clean when everyone is out of the room (break, lunch, end of day)

[Nihiloxica]

As for reducing money, the terms and conditions of the contracts in state schools would have to be completely rewritten.

Exactly.

If we are tearing up the social contract by removing children's right to a full time education, then that will completely change what schools are, their importance in our society, and their levels of funding.

If we are going down this road, teaching is a different, much less important, job.

So of course the contracts will have to change.

You can't remove the basis of your employment (free universal education) but keep pay and conditions the same.

[bonsaidragon]

Why would any teacher in their right mind, rush into a class of 30 in the height of a pandemic?

Because they can't afford not to keep their job? We don't all have the luxury of being able to leave work.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

Trust - they count, because you're right (they've shut sixth forms I think?)

But they have 10x the deaths of their nearest neighbour. Is this a toll you'd be happy to accept?

[CaptainBrickbeard]

So many threads berating teachers for not managing to solve a global pandemic via the power of ‘creative thinking’ but the solutions offered by the critics are - reduce education funding to create an even worse crisis and ensure children’s learning is fucked well past the pandemic, drive teachers out of their jobs when there is already a recruitment crisis in the profession, copy a country who have a terrible death rate and have admitted that their policy was a mistake and put retired people in classrooms when they are exactly the demographic who need the most protection. And given that all of those are terrible ideas, then demand that teachers just need to be innovative and they can magically conjure up a way to achieve the impossible.

The situation is shit. This is a horrible catastrophe that has happened. We can’t just wave a magic wand and make life carry on as normal. We will all suffer to some extent, some more than others and it is and will be terribly unfair. No one can just fix that.

It’s up to the government to have a halfway competent response to get us through this. That’s what we need; demanding that is where our energies should be directed.

[twinnywinny14]

@Sleeprocks and how do you suggest these cleaners get paid? School budgets are already over stretched with school staff being made redundant, cheaper less experienced staff encouraged to interview rather than more experienced and expensive staff, support staff hours being cut, some classes taught with just a teacher and no additional support, cleaners don’t work for free and schools don’t have the means to pay them

[CornishYarg]

I'm still waiting for the list of countries with death rates near to ours (or even not) who have thrown all the kids back with no SD

Belgium are allowing all primary school pupils to return on Monday, after allowing some years to return a couple of weeks ago. I don't know what their class sizes are like but they were also badly hit by coronavirus. It seems very soon to return all pupils but it's certainly one to keep a close eye on.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/all-nursery-and-primary-schools-in-belgium-to-reopen-in-june/amp/

[BakewellTarts]

The thing is if this is a new normal and we accept that part time school IS the new normal and systems will change to accomdate that. Certainly in terms of how this is funded. And that will have a consequence for all sorts of things including jobs.

I DO NOT THINK THIS IS DESIRABLE JUST WHAT TO BE BEING ARGUED FOR.

And the longer home school / blended education / part time learning goes on the more likely it is to happen. After all it works doesn't it?

Schools according to all the evidence are low risk and so if I was the NEU or teachers I'd be trying to get kids back in ASAP before anything significant changes.

[TheHoneyBadger]

Gosh. Absolute contempt for teachers from the very people who can’t even inspire their own children to do any work.

One might have hoped it would open there eyes as to how much time must go into planning -and how much energy and skill and determination it must take to get 30 at a time to have behaviour for learning and to work hard.

[CallmeAngelina]

Why is it SO FUCKING HARD for people to grasp the notion that teachers have not "left work."
It's called working from home - millions of other workers are doing it without such censure. Is it ideal? Of course it's fucking not, but this situation is not of our making. We are trying to do the best with the curve ball we've been thrown.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

Nihil - have you read the link yet? Or am I still lying?