Can’t see how children will be able to go back to school in 2021

[Ouchy]

Let’s face it. The R0 may not be controlled for months. Vaccine unlikely until 2021. Teaching unions up in arms. People unwilling to accept the risk of the virus (low for many). I’m getting more and more concerned and the government haven’t published any forward plans for how school can be restarted in the various scenarios we may be facing come September (have they?). What on earth are the DfE and the Education Secretary doing during the working week if they’re not planning this stuff? Is there something I’ve missed - am I mistaken? I’m getting more and more concerned. The children are low risk - there needs to be a plan and fast as their educations and social development are being kind of ignored for something they’re super low risk for as individuals themselves. Looking for reassurance really - am I mistaken or being silly?

@Eyewhisker

Because most teachers, like most of the population are under 45 and are simply not at risk from the disease. The risks are only high for the retired. I am all for a short, sharp lockdown but not for destroying the lives of children and young people for something that poses no risk to them. That is complete madness and totally disproportionate.

I'm in a big dept (core subject). Half of us are over 45 and/or have an underlying condition that makes them vulnerable (only 1 shielded).

Again, schools are doing, and will continue to do what the government tells them do. If you're unhappy (and I can understand why) blame them. But don't say we're all risk free. And schools weren't even closed to protect teachers, it was to prevent community spread. Being secondary a lot of our parents are over 45.

TrustTheGeneGenie Ideally, yes, but you may have missed the memo that we are suffering a pandemic. So the Government has closed schools because it is unsafe.

live online classes

The problem with this is one of staffing.

Unfortunately, if we have to have half class sizes, 1 teacher who previously taught 30 children is now working full time, but only teaching 15.

In fact, staffing a bubble usually takes 2 adults, because without the ability to use lunchtime supervisors or PPA cover staff, simply allowing the teacher to have a toilet break in the day requires there to be another adult to 'take turns' being in front of the class in that bubble.

If half a class is in school at a time, but the teacher is in school teaching them full time, who is taking the live online lessons?

Teachers are working in school and at home.

The same as any other profession where they work from home if they can.

That's the guidance remember? Why don people always 'other' teachers.

Our local infants has yr R and 1 in.

Week A 1/2 pupils in
Week B other 1/2 are in.

Teachers stay with same bubble and teach in school for their week and teach same pupils via home learning the other.

The vulnerable staff are a 3rd group and teach yr 2 via home learning.

And I know most of them would rather it was safe to return as per the norm.

But we aren't going to be able to do that until people start following the guidance properly and the infection rate drops.

Schools returning also depends on what society does too.

I'm hoping all this rain will keep people at home and they don't decide to visit friends and family houses instead.

EnlightenedOwl, I see you're still keen on using the word "hysteria." Have you looked it up yet, as I suggested on another thread?

A quick Google shows that Scotland are opening schools in August. Or so they say.

There doesn't seem to be any reason to suspect schools won't open.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

TBH, I can't see us going back anytime soon, and FYI none of it is due to teachers or the unions

So what is it down to? Because the government are making a start to getting some children back and it's the union's that are crying about it?

Whether the R is above one or not this cannot continue.

The unions asked for safety measures. Teachers have gone back anyway unless the local council said it was too dangerous.

We've not stopped anything from happening. We've done as we were told. The government will decide what happens next and again we'll do what we're told.

TrustTheGeneGenie

Have the unions managed to stop the schools wider opening?

The answer would be no.

We all know (including you) that the government is doing exactly what it wants to do.

My child is autistic. He goes to special school. His curriculum is designed around his EHCP and individual to him. Everything is delivered through that school: occupational therapy, speech therapy, sensory integration therapy.

We've lost everything. All he has is me, and I have a 2yo to look after too. His structure has gone. His therapies.

Children with EHCPs are in the 'Vulnerable' group and are therefore entitled to receive education. But my son's school can not operate with limited staff - most students are on 1-1 all day long.

So we have nothing. I'm absolutely terrified about the next 12 months.

When I was about 9 my primary school burned down. For a few weeks we were bused to another school and then portacabins replaced classrooms until the new school was built.

I know teachers are now learning how to teach online but it seems to me we haven't considered all the other logistical options. What about fast tracking PGCE students, letting TAs do more, lots of people have lost jobs so can have intensive training and be redeployed ie. what are the options to increase the number of 'teachers'. I know they may all not be trained to the same standard but it's way better than no school. What about using temporary buildings like I said or church halls or community centres ie. extend beyond the normal bounds of a school building.

We need a new normal and that means approaching a problem differently.

I know @CallmeAngelina but I didn't particularly like your tone. It seemed as though you thought they deserved it because they haven't been abiding by the rules. when in actual fact they're probably the ones who need it most.

The government are re opening schools, btw. I can only hope they decide childrens education is important come September because clearly nobody else agrees.

More children will die from suicide due to lockdown than from the virus

I call for evidence on this.

@piggywaspushed

Well a quick Google tells me 3 teenagers in Kent alone have committed suicide due to lockdown. There will be many more. Of course nobody is counting these because they don't give a fuck.

I can only hope they decide childrens education is important come September because clearly nobody else agrees

Really, could you provide evidence for that?

KeepWashing

Did you see my post about the sheer number of spaces needed?

Locally, we would need 28 separate classrom-sized spaces just to accommodate primary school pupils from the community's 3 schools for primary age pupils. Another 50-60to accommodate the secondary pupils. Essentially, you need to double the size - interms of numbers of rooms - of every school, and that is ONLY if you abolish the 2m social distancing and rely on bubbles. Secondaries are requiring social distancing, so would probably need 4x the number of rooms they currently have.

You don't know that's due to lockdown. The poor young people must have already had serious issues. Suicide is already unfortunately common in the young male age group, caused by a range of factors.

If this is what teachers and the teaching unions want then the only fair thing to do is to admit that distance learning is no substitute for classroom education, and in September reset the school year back to last September. This will ensure that children receive the education they deserve, albeit leaving school a year later.

Really, could you provide evidence for that?

This thread. Hundreds of others on MN.

The reaction of the union's. The reaction of local councils.

This will ensure that children receive the education they deserve, albeit leaving school a year later

But then what happens to those due to start school?

As someone who ahs taught young people who have committed suicide, please don't suggest I don't give a fuck.

I need to see evidence that the suicide rate has risen, but we won't know yet.

Yes I did and appreciate that's not possible up and down the country - but it would be in some areas. And what about temporary buildings like I mentioned.

Sweden?

They haven't closed schools and somehow not all of their teachers immediately dropped dead.

Lots of people haven't been sending their children in though, so classes in general have been smaller than normal. And class sizes in Sweden are much smaller than in the UK anyway - 15-22 is normal.

Children have to go back. It can't wait until next year and what's the point? Is it suddenly going to be safe in January?
Parents are struggling to work and teach. A lot of children are struggling to do the work, they need teachers input. It was,ridiculous to send younger children in first (certainly wasn't done for the children's benefit) it's the older secondary school children who need to go back. Those going in to 10 and above should be back. So many children are falling behind. Those falling behind in reception and Y1 will catch up but the older children won't have the chance.
Even if it's only part time they must go back. This years GCSE and Alevel children have already been let down, how many more children must suffer?

User, what is your plan for those who should have moved on but can't?

Do those who have been given their A-levels start Y13 again? Do Y11 go back and do Y11 again?

If not, then secondaries will only have 5 out of 7 year groups in. Universities will have no first years. Meanwhile nurseries will have to suddenly find space for a whole year group who they thought had left. It doesn't work.

Sweden did close schools to oldest children.

Absence rates are high.