If schools aren’t back to normal sept?

[gingajewel]

If schools aren’t back to normal September and you are back to work what are you planning to do? Also do you think the key worker provision will stay for September or do you think it will only available to the summer holidays?

@paperchainpopp

Our staff's productivity has dropped by at least 50% since working from home began. On top of that, clients have been complaining about babies and DC disrupting conference calls and meetings- those are clients we cannot afford to lose.

We are a creative business and it is very difficult to generate ideas and strategies online- we need people in a room together.

Myself and the rest of the board of directors are at the point where we're close to hoping people resign for childcare reasons. Otherwise, we'll be looking at making significant redundancies. We cannot sustain working from home and we cannot sustain a 70% drop in client commissions.

Basically @FrenchSeal you want people to resign to make life easier for you. You are basically pushing people in to a corner

Ok then

I love my job and the the thought of being forced in to resignation because schools aren’t open really upsets me.

Many office based jobs cannot be done from home because of confidentiality. Never mind all support stuff these companies employ. Cannot sort the mailing room from home. Or go to that massive stationary closet at home etc.

The issue we don't have the infrastructure in place. Which I believe a part of the license fee goes towards.

It has been known for decades connectivity is crap in this country. Parts of the country cannot get access, or they can but it's not that great.

Education has been highlighting this for decades. The curriculum for coding and learning about the digital world really hasn't moved on since I left in the early 90's. I couldn't believe, year 9 still learning the basics of microsoft. They've been using whatever often out of date systems since reception years if not before.

Schools have highlighgted this issue for years because they have students who spend months at a time home, and schools don't have the funding/equipment to help. So how the hell anyone thought home school learning would be a success is beyond me.

Secondary schools in the middle of GCSE years, or just about to start have been fucked over. Those are going to be some very angry adults, working to pay back furlough. Working to pay towards older generations. Working to help provide a future for the younger generations. I hear them when they are talking. Many already looking at how other countries coped with this, especially their own age group. If I'd been fucked over this much, I don't blame them.

They read this site we all know this. They know it was because of pressure from parents to get year 6 back in.

They know the government forgot about them. They went on the gov website and noticed the lack of guidance for their years.

It's not about forcing people to resign @MabelMoo23.

At the end of the day, we need staff in the office if we are to survive as a company. On top of that, client demand has nosedived so we can simply no longer sustain the level of staffing we currently have.

Personally I would much rather retain as many jobs as possible- one way we can do that is by not having to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds in redundancy packages. If staff resign for childcare reasons, we'll be able to keep more people in the business as the resignees won't receive pay offs.

At least French is being honest.
How many bosses push working people out because of bullying, unreasonable expectations, working extra hours often without the extra pay, get fucked over and leave because they are getting extra work because they are covering others etc.

Childcare is not down to companies. It is not down to the government. Childcare and working is down to the individual household.

Why is it automatically trotted out that females will quit? Understandably single parents find it harder. But when the other parent lives there. Oh but but job more important. And how does that work out for everyone else? Why aren't mums saying hang on a minute, if I have to change career reduce hours, then so the fuck can you.

Did no-one think about childcare when they were talking about children? Or was the assumption that others would step in? Because from where I'm sitting it sure as hell comes across this way.

Yes I live by this. When I was with ex, we would find ways to benefit us all based on the circumstances. They came out of me, but I'm not tethered to them. Like fuck was I staying at home like the good little wife fucking up my future. Even taking demotions etc was more beneficial to get any decent. family life.

We are a creative business and it is very difficult to generate ideas and strategies online- we need people in a room together.

Evidently you aren't that creative.

Will people be allowed to hire a tutor or childcarer to supervise home learning while they go to work, or would that be not allowed due to entering the house? Presumably it would be allowed as they would be entering the house to do paid work, like cleaners, plumbers etc?

I just remembered a thread from earlier this year.

It was about office and the need for small talk. How quiet ones were so selfish and unfair for wanting to ignore all the gossip and didn't want to get involved. People getting annoyed because colleagues didn't to talk about the weather etc.

How this small talk, gossip, banter etc was important for the work environment. How people were weird because they didn't want to join colleagues for lunch or whatever. All they wanted to do was either interroggate their colleagues for their life story, need to tell them their own issues and get annoyed with the answer, or worse bore them and talk about random people they know vaguely.

Those quiet ones will be in their element now

Of course it will be allowed. You can get a nanny and a cleaner in now.

Depending on the age of the child, virtual tutor is also another option to those with the financial means.

However OCR etc haven't made a decision for exams yet. It's still open for consultation and closes tomorrow. But still doesn't go into detail about those who cannot access this.

@canigooutyet

Personally I think an office where people are talking to each other is a good office. We want staff at my place who want to work collaboratively together.

I'm not interested in employing people who just want to sit at their desks in silence- I want to see my staff communicating and interacting with each other. That is why we want everyone back in the office in September.

@FrenchSeal What if you have a few really great staff who are real assets to your business? And they have children, can’t return in September, but will be able to return to the office at the end of October (when furlough ends and schools are potentially more “normal”). Isn’t it more hassle than it’s worth for them to be forced into resigning in August, and then you have all the hassle and uncertainties of trying to recruit new really good people and get them in in time for a handover?

I'm not interested in employing people who just want to sit at their desks in silence- I want to see my staff communicating and interacting with each other. That is why we want everyone back in the office in September

If you truly are an employer, you desperately need to look at the guidance on returning to work. Offices still need to implement the 2m distancing rule as much as possible and minimise chances of transmission, or risk liability if staff members get sick. That could be interpreted more flexible in key working places like supermarkets where implementing fully is hard to impossible (though they still have to try) but in an office where everyone could technically work from home, you'll have to be more careful. In our overseas offices, that means only using every other desk, limiting numbers in elevators, only allowing small meetings in person around large tables, not being allowed to eat or drink in meetings etc. It's not going to be back to normal with in person brainstorming...

At the end of the day @Lemons1571 , we've already facilitated 3 months of working from home and we'll have to facilitate another 3.

Regrettably it doesn't work for our business. So we are now giving 10 weeks' notice to staff of the return to the office on September 1st. Staff will then have 6 weeks to think about their personal circumstances and whether they can return to the office before they have to give notice at the end of July.

At this stage we're expecting around 20% of the workforce to resign for childcare reasons- it's really an alternative to redundancy for us.

@FrenchSeal
Oh I agree with you wholeheartidly. Some professions need to have that working collaboration. If remote working was prefect then Silicone valley wouldn't have office workers for starters haha. Wonder how comes Google workers show up to the office.

Just amuses me. Many wanted to work in a talkative environment because they thrived on banal chat. Now it's don't be so ridiculous, it can all be done from home. You can all collaborate at home.

Some people really have this idea work revolves around them and their problems and have little grasp on how money works.

I don't know why you are getting a hard time tbh. You're not a charity at the end of the day. It's not down to companies to hand hold parents to work out something for their personal circumstances. Not like your company are saying anyone has to hand in their notice. Just we are going back you have time to sort your personal shit out. Just like the day there were hired.

Your company are not saying hand in notice*

How will they be back full time in October?

Secondary in September still open to the darling new year 7's and 11's. Following the primary model it will take weeks for these to be deemed safe to let in another year group, which again following the primary model means year 9.

Or do you mean primary schools will be fully open by then?

I think the govt has been massively unfair leaving this at companies (many who are struggling to survive ) door to resolve this.
It is fine for companies to allow wfh with kids for a short period but it is really isn't sustainable for long term ( there is a whole thread on this ). Especially if they as businesses are struggling.
It is breaking me and I have primary children and very supportive husband that pulls half his weight.

I have some hopes for primary being back as less of an issue than secondary with transmission. And we could manage as a family with paid childcare if it was part time schooling but I would be very worried - my children are in years not prioritised to go back - so to head back to school since March and then only get part time seems shit AND the reality is if parents are trying to work they would be reliant on clubbing together with other parents and grandparents to keep a roof over their heads which defeats the point of the bubble anyway !

@cocktailoclock @canigooutyet sure, agree with you that WFH while looking after kids, especially young ones, is not effective. I have full sympathy in this, because I was less effective when doing this, and my team also.

However that doesnt mean that people can't WFH - that poster claimed that her business was creative, but some of the best teams I know have been remote, and many others have been able to continue from home given the situation, given that commuting and being in the office together carries its own issues in the middle of a pandemic (more people getting sick even if not with covid, more delays due to fewer services and less convenience at lunch spots etc, lack of normal collaboration in person with numbers limited in meetings etc).

By requiring people who do not need to be in an office to come into the office, employers would be putting themselves at risk of discrimination claims, as well as losing good employees.

A discrimination claim raised now will be lucky to get to a tribunal within 2 years.

I think @FrenchSeal has stated clearly why they are having problems

Our staff's productivity has dropped by at least 50% since working from home began. On top of that, clients have been complaining about babies and DC disrupting conference calls and meetings- those are clients we cannot afford to lose.

Prior to CV firms did offer flexibility but staff have to maintain productivity. The situation is that not everyone has issues with having to sort out childcare and they are probably the clients that her may lose. There are always plenty of threads on here about the uk being not-child friendly and fellow workers not being tolerant of family related issues.

We might not be in a middle of a pandemic in September.
Surely staff will still be able to make formal requests for changes. In normal circumstances if someone couldn’t do the job they’d quit or something. If the company is unable to make adjustments and it’s not in the companies best interest how would that be wrong now?

Lack of childcare can be an issue at any moment. Most companies are reasonable about leave etc. But even then comes the time when hard choices have to be made.

No company is forcing anyone to quit. It’s people’s own circumstances that might cause this. Many mums are feeling defeated already and looking at quitting. The other parents needs to also do their job as a parent. They should not have to sacrifice there jobs for the sake of someone else.

Also use it as a positive way to teach your children about equality by showing them. If we ever want real changes this starts at home.

Yet the see how people talk about freedoms women have gotten compared to the 1950’s etc. Yet there’s no real progress. Many mums gave up their jobs to be the good little 50”S life cos person with a penis is superior to everyone else in the home.

And the minute discrimination claims start kicking in some employers will decide working mothers are more hassle than they are worth.

We have come a long way in terms of equal rights but I fear that we will be going into reverse for a while.

There is always an unpaid leave option.

I’ve got a meeting tomorrow with my parent company. I fear they’re going to tell me to start making redundancies.
I’m gutted.
But this isn’t sustainable.
So depressing.

Parents of ill children have been talking about this for years. So have charities etc working with these vulnerable households. Many have had to give up careers to care for their child long term.

Yet when parents have to give up work because of a lack of childcare and there is no other choice, don't recall any discrimination cases in their favour. If there are I would love to read them.