Track and Trace

[sunglasses123]

So once T&T is up and running and you get a notification that you have been in close contact with someone with CV19. You could be bleeped all the time especially if you are meeting your family which I believe is one of the highest risks and one of them has it Passing someone within 2 metres in a supermarket has little risk.

If for example its the winter and you are due to go on holiday, get married, go to a funeral etc and you are told to isolate then why would some people even get the app if they thought they would be stopped from doing something pre booked/arranged.

I see the younger people even less likely to have the track and trace because even if they had it they are likely to have symptons.

Or do we think its likely that its only with severe cases with a huge viral load given to you that will result in you being asked to self isolate.

I work at home most of the time anyway so this wouldnt be a big issue for me (unless I was about to go on holiday - I suspect your travel insurance would not cover you for this scenario) but for others I can envisage huge concerns going forward.

Amazed how people know all about this app and its technical abilities

It's not really amazing. The code was uploaded into Github and made available for anyone to review.

"Its for the greater good"

It's like a leeming apocalypse.

I find it amazing some people are so patronising they think us plebs don’t understand tracing apps.

“Greater good” what wank.

it's a pit of selfish hypocritical people who have more interest in political point scoring than anything else and won't use the system because it's imperfect despite the fact that it's our only hope

Well it better not be! a SAGE scientist has said that even with an app and a 80% uptake, it will reduce CV cases by between 5 and 15% only.
We don't have an App and no country has achieved 80% compliance.

With an ever easing of restrictions and no sign our daily infection rate is declining rapidly, the numbers of contacts will be huge, its not just 15min @2m BUT also any time spent @1m or anyone you might have sneezed on etc, You also need their contact details too....

Whether you like it or not, trust in the govt has been eroded by the Govt's actions over Cummings, plus developing an app that no one else is using is not helping

“but to wilfully not participate in T&T is hypocritical and evil in my opinion.“

Evil?

If this track and trace is so bad what do you suggest as an alternative .

The whole track and trace thing seems quite hard to swallow with no government support. Especially if your repeatedly asked to isolate.
It’s not isolate before a test, it’s isolate for the 14 days with potentially no pay and bills still to pay.

As for the app, I’ve gone from being ok with it to I’m not downloading it, as it seems a waste of my phone storage.

1. I don’t come into contact with anyone for 15 mins that I wouldn’t know had it (e.g partner or kids)
2. All good will and trust has gone now. Trust of data, trust of doing the right thing.

Whilst I appreciate that makes me worse than DC I cannot help how I feel now.

How will this work from a GDPR pint of view though? Do I have to give signed consent for all my friends and family to give out my number?

When I return to my job properly and resume in person visits, I absolutely cannot be giving out the numbers of my families without their explicit consent. I’m not even allowed to carry around the addresses of where I need to go!

There was a working tracing model available and the government chose not to use it, two months ago.

This is that system. The whole point of lockdown was to get new cases down again to a level where it’s feasible to use it.

Yes they should have gone for this in the first place and God I wish they had, but surely better late than never?

'But I see from here that testing for coronavirus will take place so that would safeguard against this?*

Nope, if you're asked to self isolate you won't be tested unless you're showing symptoms.

An alternative ? Eh, I don’t think that’s on my job description Rosie, I believe a group of trustworthy guys known as government do this.

I wasn’t talking about that system Golden. The ones by Apple and google with better security came out first ? (Correct me if I’m wrong)

Alternatives to testing and contact tracing:

• let the virus just work it’s way through, and kill loads of people;

• keep entire country locked down until there’s an effective treatment or vaccine, would wreck the economy (and indirectly kill loads of people).

The countries that have got this virus under control have done it through testing and contact tracing. That’s why our government have finally decided they need to do it too.

If this track and trace is so bad what do you suggest as an alternative

Use the widely available decentralised app, pay a high level of sick pay to those not normally entitled to it and restore trust in the public health message by at the very least telling us all Cummings was completely wrong to do what he did.

[quote peoplepleaser1]@attackedbycritters I don't blame you for being angry and upset. But unless you honestly dont think T&T will help drive down transmission it's such a shame that you and others are refusing to participate based on the irresponsible behaviour of DC.

This will help the people you love, and every single person in the UK get their lives back.

By refusing to participate you're making people suffer for longer, and not helping reduce the infection or death rate. That's a horrific way to express your anger towards the government.

It now feels like people want to prolong the misery in order to teach the government a lesson. It's so sad that people will put this ahead of doing everything they can to help beat the virus.

I value my clear conscience. I'm not going to be like DC, I'll be doing the right thing and cooperating fully with T&T. [/quote]
Exactly that!!!

Fallsballs it’s not about an app, the government isn’t even launching an app (yet maybe not ever), even the countries that use contact tracing apps also rely on the kind of manual contact tracing where a person phones you up.

If you look at Ireland or South Kora or Germany or anywhere that’s doing better than us, this contact tracing is what they’ve done.

GoldenOmber my thoughts exactly don’t think much of the alternative

The UK Information Commissioner has clearly stated that data protection legislation does not get in the way of innovative use of data in a public health emergency – as long as the core GDPR principles of transparency, fairness and proportionality are applied

So no, no-one has to get consent before handing over data.

But you really must ensure you are indeed talking to the government tracing service before handing over anything

Scammers who want personal data for later use, have not gone away. Don't be naive. Ask for some sort of reference number, end the call,and ring back on an officially published number. Never ever give your data or someone elses to someone who just rings up and asks for it.

I think the govt have confused the whole issue by first announcing a system that uses an app, but then introducing another system that isn't an app.

I'm sure there are many people that don't engage with politics, don't watch the news or daily briefings, and will now be completely confused by this system that was going to be an app, but now isn't an app.

Also worth keeping in mind that most of us will never hear from a contact tracer because most people we will meet don’t have the virus.

Yesterday here in Scotland there were 55 new cases, for a population of 5.5 million people. What are the odds that one of us came across one of those 55 people? Pretty low.

Civic duty is a bit of a tough sell at the moment, coming just after the championing of parental instinct over previous government instruction.

I'm a bit confused as to what is meant by "been in contact with". Am I supposed to ask the other people on the bus or train their names, phone numbers, postcodes and e-mail addresses and give them mine "just in case"? Or is it just friends and family who would never disclose my personal information (nor I theirs), to some random on the phone. Besides which they'd tell me if they felt unwell themselves so there would be no need for T&T anyway.

Maybe what would be useful is for PHE (and country equivalents) to announce how many people (outside of immediate households) have been asked to isolate each day. Might make people rationalize this a bit more.

2000 (roughly) positive tests yesterday.. how many contacts is that? Going on my immediate family... It would be one other person outside our household for example (the person DH shares an office with).

If you look at Ireland or South Kora or Germany or anywhere that’s doing better than us, this contact tracing is what they’ve done

these countries have not done better than us because they used track and trace but because they had a clearer and defined public health policy, so germany, whilst clearing its hospitals of elderly patients into care homes and like the UK, not enough tests, made sure anyone going into a care home was isolated for 14 days, we didn't do that, nor did we close our borders or put new arrivals into quarantine.

As i said earlier, TnT will reduce cases by a small amount, its not the golden bullet you think it is.