Will other unis follow Cambridge and say no face to face lectures for the whole of next year?

[WhatP1antWhere]

If so won’t that cause huge levels of deferring and a tight squeeze on places for the following years coming up. Places will surely go to those who have deferred first.Just feeling for year 11. Exams cancelled, no support from schools, term ending early, Alevels courses going to be disrupted and potentially now huge competition for uni places.

Online lectures and remote learning are two different things. Remote learning is not one way and involves student participation

Just terminology, at the end of the day, its a student, on their own looking at a laptop, with possible distractions all around, especially in
a house full of students dong different courses and timetables etc.... there is the issue of internet failures and/or bandwidth, it also doesn't allow for easy collaboration with other students on the same course.

If people are going back to work, using public transport and schools are reopening, then there is no reason for Uni's not to do similar.

And I know people really aren't interested in how hard academics are working but remote delivery is at least twice the work of on campus, face to face teaching and is exhausting to facilitate.
It's likely we'll all be doing twice as much teaching as we'll have to deliver things at least twice because what would work in a large group face to face doesn't work remotely so we'll have to work with smaller groups. Plus all our modules and materials need adapting to be suitable to be delivered remotely.

It's as huge amount of work and isn't as easy as dumping a load of content online.
Plus lots of us are doing this at home with caring responsibilities. I'm providing some recorded sessions to my MA students at moment but I'm having to record them late at night as that's the only time the house is quiet enough. And as my son is unlikely to return to school before September I'll have to work like this all summer.

Jasjas I would bloody love to be back on campus. Academics don't want to do it this way. We're desperate to go back.
Schools aren't going back in a way that makes it easy for people to work. My son is reception age and I'm a governor at his school. The head told us last night they it is highly unlikely any group other than year 6 will be back before September.
Universities are different to schools and if we're being told by the government we need to adhere to social distancing then that's what we have to do.

This isn't our choice but we're doing the best we can. This can still be a positive experience for students. Yes it's different but the world is different at the moment and we all have to adapt.

If people are going back to work, using public transport and schools are reopening, then there is no reason for Uni's not to do similar

Why do you think they aren't?

If people are going back to work, using public transport and schools are reopening, then there is no reason for Uni's not to do similar.

And if they are, with no social distancing required because we've wiped the virus out, that will be bloody brilliant. But you might have noticed that people are only going back to work where they cannot do so from home, public transport is limited and schools are not opening.

Hopefully not as I'm due to start my health visiting postgrad this September.

I’m looking forward to DD going back in September and I’m feeling reasonably optimistic that academics will be able to make the best of it as long as students are positive. Even if a lot of her teaching is online, she will have practicals in her (science) and there will still be pluses to living in a different large city. I refuse to imagine her stuck in her bedroom!

I also think deferring (not an option for DD as she is in year 2) brings all sorts of complications. What are 18 year olds who defer going to do? Big recession, no bar jobs, but maybe agency work in a warehouse, maybe bike delivery jobs - at least they have a selling point in that they are only eligible for the 18-20 rate National minimum wage - but If it was me, i would be thinking higher education, even if it is not as you hoped it would be, is probably the best place to ride out a recession - especially if you choose your degree wisely.

SOME STUDENTS ACTIVELY PREFER LIVE LECTURES is worth shouting from the rooftops

You didn't though, did you @ITonyah ? I fail to see how your opinion here on this matter counts for much as you so readily admit your contempt for your course & the lectures. You're not really qualified to make a judgement here.

My experience with university is that lectures really do not need to be in person. In big subjects questions are very much show off opportunities not learning opportunities. Being able to pause, review etc, and also not trying to take notes on a "desk" that is shorter than a piece of A4 paper is definitely better than the in person experience with 400+ people breathing the same air, fidgeting and breathing out booze/curry from last night!

It's likely we'll all be doing twice as much teaching as we'll have to deliver things at least twice because what would work in a large group face to face doesn't work remotely so we'll have to work with smaller groups. Plus all our modules and materials need adapting to be suitable to be delivered remotely

Exactly this - this is what we're planning for, as I outlined upthread (I suppose one needs to repeat things 3 times for people to learn). If we are still using social distancing & self-isolation (as well as shielding) principles, then anyone with a hint of symptoms - staff or student - will need to go online in isolation to keep teaching or studying.

So we're planning for doing twice the load: in person as much as possible, but with online & mixed modes always available.

Some students will be in high risk categories. Are parent posters here suggesting they be debarred from getting access to education? Highly discriminatory - and actually a university whose practices excluded students with disabilities or in high risk/shielding groups could be prosecuted under the DDA.

A lot of people with disabilities are seeing the move to mixed modes & online as incredibly helpful for them. Are their rights of less value than the DC of MN posters?

SOME STUDENTS ACTIVELY PREFER LIVE LECTURES is worth shouting from the rooftops

SO DO ACADEMICS!!!!!!
I also prefer seeing my friends and family in person rather than via Zoom and my son likes going to school but in case you hadn't noticed ITonyah we're in the middle of a global pandemic.

Academics aren't sitting at home rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of moving to remote delivery. We're doing what we can in a really shit situation.
If we can safely get back to normal then we absolutely will. We are planning for all eventualities because these things take time. OfS have asked universities to provide 'absolute clarity' on their plans for September. Applicants should wait to hear these plans before making a decision.

A lot of people with disabilities are seeing the move to mixed modes & online as incredibly helpful for them. Are their rights of less value than the DC of MN posters?

That's a low blow.

I fail to see how your opinion here on this matter counts for much as you so readily admit your contempt for your course & the lectures. You're not really qualified to make a judgement here

I am talking about my dd. My experience was 35 years ago in a completely different time and place and yes, not relevant. But as a parent of a current undergraduate I have have every right to say what I like!

A lot of people with disabilities are seeing the move to mixed modes & online as incredibly helpful for them. Are their rights of less value than the DC of MN posters?

So do commuter students. Feedback from that group of students hat mu university has been really positive. Also, my MA students have indicated that they prefer a blended approach. Not fully distance but some remote delivery as well as face to face but this is because many of them travel a fair distance and have childcare responsibilities.

Not everyone at university is the traditional 18 year old moving away from home.

*at my

Not everyone at university is the traditional 18 year old moving away from home I would imagine that demographic makes up the majority of undergraduates.

I would imagine that demographic makes up the majority of undergraduates

But universities don't just teach UG students and more and more 18 year olds are staying at home when they go to university. It also depends on the university...some have very high numbers of commuter students who will probably benefit more from a blended approach.
We are not one homogeneous group and neither are our students.

We are not one homogeneous group and neither are our students

And it is our job to be aware of that, and offer a mix of teaching styles and assessment forms, so all our students have the chance to thrive & succeed.

Lots of students do now live at home - that’s certainly true. At my daughter’s Scottish university, lots of her friends were opting to commute in even before this virus came along. Uni accommodation is so expensive. In fact it caused her a headache she didn’t foresee as someone who lives a day’s travel away, when it came to finding friends to flat share with.

I would imagine that demographic makes up the majority of undergraduates.

You'd be wrong. 60% of undergraduates are indeed young, but a quarter stay living at home.

So which demographic makes up the majority?

What I don't understand about current yr13s wanting to defer is the idea that it is unfair in comparison to people who started university last year. I understand that they'll be missing out on freshers' week events and that it might be harder to make friends etc with blended learning. But comparing your experience to last year's cohort makes no sense - everybody in every year is in the same boat. Current first and second years have had their year at uni cut short, and have been the guinea pigs for online/ blended learning next year, so that incoming freshers will have a better planned experience. It's like complaining that not being able to go on a summer holiday this year is "unfair" because everyone could last year. Everybody's lives are affected by the pandemic, not just freshers. I'm sure that in three years time nobody will be saying "oh how lucky are we to be able to sit finals in person instead of online like in 2020".

No year 13 I know thinks its "unfair". They were looking forward to something and now it's gone. I can understand feeling sad about that. They are very resilient and will cope.

They were looking forward to something and now it's gone. I can understand feeling sad about that. They are very resilient and will cope

So can I. It's a real shame and I do feel for them. I have a younger sister in year 13. I get it.
I can only speak for my university but this has been acknowledged and we're doing what we can.

@Bakedpotatoandgin the difference is that the current year 13s know what the situation is at the moment, those who started university had no idea so could not make an informed choice. I don't think they think it's unfair, but that they would rather wait which is fair enough. Many I am sure will go regardless, which is great, but for those who don't want to its understandable.