Will other unis follow Cambridge and say no face to face lectures for the whole of next year?

[WhatP1antWhere]

If so won’t that cause huge levels of deferring and a tight squeeze on places for the following years coming up. Places will surely go to those who have deferred first.Just feeling for year 11. Exams cancelled, no support from schools, term ending early, Alevels courses going to be disrupted and potentially now huge competition for uni places.

In fact, students at my university and on my course have been offered more help and support and have arguably had more value for their money

But only the students - the ones paying for the service - can decide that.

It's absolutely no fault of the staff - I'm also involved in online teaching myself - but I doubt many students will consider Zoom lessons and tutorials 'better value' than the whole university experience in all its aspects.

My students have had significantly more support from me over the last two months then they would usually receive so yes I believe that.
I've worked hard to ensure they aren't suffering any detriment to their studies as result of a situation that is out of all of our hands.
I can only speak about my students and my course but I don't think it's physically possible to support them more than I have......

Give that you don't know any of the details that sueellen's uni is providing I'm unsure how you can be so certain otherwise

I wonder if people assume online is merely passively sitting on your bed with a lecture playing on your laptop like Netflix while your child scrolls through Insta?

If you think you'd get better value for money at the OU you do know that option is there right?

Money where mouth is.

The vast majority of teaching for my course had finished and they have entered a period of independent study where they'd each have one or maybe two tutorials between April and September... however that has become supported study. They've had unlimited personal tutorials, facilitated discussion groups, drop in sessions at times chosen by them , they've had extensions and extra academic support. I'd say they're getting good value.

Where will they all live and work if not back to semi normal , many students work whilst on course not all have banks of mum and dad and if we are still in midst of this pubs , clubs etc won't be at capacity , halls of residence loads live in , shared houses is the norm as well so much bigger picture to think of

@sueellenmishke right there with you. I've seen more if my students over the past 3 months than I have on campus before Christmas! There are so many tools and innovative practices being used. I've been on the phone every weekend too advising on student welfare. I'm working x2 has hard as I usually need to just to keep my students safe and engaged.

SueEllen
I am not arguing about the quality of the teaching or support that you are currently providing your students. I am sure you are working hard.
But it is not correct to assume that all students are receiving the same level of support.

And whilst you may say that being at uni is all about the academia, everyone knows that it is much more than that. Even the most serious of students gets involved in extra-curricular stuff, going out, meeting new friends, helping out at freshers week blah blah blah. You know, learning to become an independent adult.
Pretty much every student my daughter knows at her uni has gone home. Her city was like a ghost town in the student areas prior to her coming home - she was the last to leave her house of eight.
You might think that students are getting better value for their money but I'm willing to bet that the majority don't agree. Especially as they'll be paying for it for years.
My comments are not really aimed at how hard academics are working - I don't doubt it - but if my daughter had wanted the university education now on offer she could have a) signed up for OU or b) studied in her home city and stayed at home thereby not incurring £100+ a week rent whilst staying at home.

I think most of us are doing this hernamewasrio ...in most cases we genuinely care about our students and are going above and beyond. However, it's not the done thing to be positive about teachers or academics on MN!!

Plus, it's one thing teaching students in their 3rd year who already have established relationships with staff and their fellow students. It's quite different for a fresher - who hasn't had the opportunity to build up these relationships - to embark on university life via a computer screen in their bedroom.

And as someone said - either here or on another thread - if online learning is 'just as good' then why not sign up for a much cheaper course in a European uni which teaches in English?

I've never said all students or all universities. I've said my students....and actually the feedback for teaching quality since lockdown has been positive in my faculty. In fact, scores were higher post lockdown.
Nobody is saying it's the same experience. Of course it isn't. But different doesn't automatically mean worse.

I agree icedpurple establishing relationships with students will be more challenging. We're already thinking about how we can do this effectively.
There is a lot of work going into this. A serious amount believe me.

Some groups of students will find remote learning ( or a combination) more positive. Our commuter students are one group who are benefiting for this new way of working.

twitter.com/priyamvadagopal/status/1263030704264314881?s=21

Thread from a Cambridge English Fellow on where lectures sit in the overall scheme of undergrad teaching in her subject.

Students unions are also working on the social side....that's not been forgotten.

So, this is another education-bashing thread ...

Look, people, we're all of us - even you people who see education only in terms of the money ou're paying - all of us hop that the current situation lasts only for 6-9 months.

That the labs RUN AND STAFFED BY UNIVERSITY ACADEMICS, RESEARCHERS and PROFESSIONAL SERVICES STAFF will find a vaccine or better treatments. The we will all learn to manage the contagion.

Then your DC can have the "full" experience, which seems to focus on social events, but never mind.

In the meantime we university people will keep on trying to make things as safe as we possibly can. So your children don't get ill or die or pass on the virus to others who get ill or die.

Pretty much every student my daughter knows at her uni has gone home. Her city was like a ghost town in the student areas prior to her coming home - she was the last to leave her house of eight.
You might think that students are getting better value for their money but I'm willing to bet that the majority don't agree. Especially as they'll be paying for it for years

But that's not the fault of their university or their degree @TheWordWomanIsTaken. It's very sad that their last phase of time as students has been affected in this way. But it's because of the restrictions needed to deal with a global pandemic! That can't be blamed on the university. It's like going to a closed branch of Nando's and saying 'well, my customer experience today has been terrible!'

The social experience is important. But it is not core to the 'value' of the degree the universities enable their students to earn. Not entirely separate, I know, but not something the university, certainly by the final year, is responsible for and it's not reasonable to say on that basis that the value of the degree has been affected.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS THE FAULT OF THE UNIVERSITY!!!!!
I said it is unfair that students (being the lowest on the food chain) are having to bear the financial brunt of paying for a course/experience that they are not receiving along with having to pay rent on properties they can't really move into in early summer unless the rules around households change.
The government has found the magic money tree, but no money has come the way of students - even just to write off the interest on their loans for this period.
Support found for landlords though

It is not at all like going to Nandos. That is patronising in the extreme.

Quite extraordinary how some posters seek to criticise and castigate academics and universities for the necessary life-preserving adjustments taken during a once-in-a-century global pandemic.

In case there’s any doubt: we’d all rather this wasn’t happening. We’re trying to make the best of it but it’s shit for everyone.

Nobody is 'castigating' academics. They're simply saying that from the point of view of most students - who are the clients after all - online lessons simply aren't 'better value' than the real thing. This isn't the fault of the unis, much less the individual staff members, but let's not pretend it's anything more than an emergency stopgap.

Quite extraordinary how some posters seek to criticise and castigate academics and universities for the necessary life-preserving adjustments taken during a once-in-a-century global pandemic

Well, quite, Lass. While denying that this is what their posts are saying ....

TheWord I think government advice is that people can currently move house. It is of course crap that students can't have the usual type of social life/extracurricular activities etc but that's not what tuition fees fund. The value of the degree your dd gets will remain the same.

Doctor isn't it more akin to going to Nandos, getting your meal then complaining about the experience because it came on a different plate the pub next door was shut!?!

Nobody is 'castigating' academics

No, I suppose I've just read these comments incorrectly. They're not castigating academics at all:

Ultimately Universities with the introduction of the loan scheme have set themselves up as businesses

She has in no way whatsoever received value for her £9250 this year

But it is not good enough though is it?

it is not what my child is paying for

more value for money.... you can’t actually expect anybody to believe that

You might think that students are getting better value for their money but I'm willing to bet that the majority don't agree

paying for a course/experience that they are not receiving along

Online learning requires a lot of commitment, self discipline and maturity. You need to draw on something to get you through. I think for a lot of undergraduates these are skills they develop or fine tune at university - they don’t necessarily have them in their first year. They (and their parents) might think that they do.

The government hasn't sent any money universities way either. It's been made perfectly clear there will be no bail out for the sector.

Students are essentially customers though aren't they, if they perceive they aren't or won't be getting value for money that have every right to be annoyed about having to pay the full amount. Similarly it isn't universities fault that we are in the middle of a pandemic, or that they cannot afford to charge less- so it's tough egg really if you are going into a second or third year etc. If you are due to be a fresher you have the choice, and I would bet many will be looking to defer or withdraw, which I would too.