Will other unis follow Cambridge and say no face to face lectures for the whole of next year?

[WhatP1antWhere]

If so won’t that cause huge levels of deferring and a tight squeeze on places for the following years coming up. Places will surely go to those who have deferred first.Just feeling for year 11. Exams cancelled, no support from schools, term ending early, Alevels courses going to be disrupted and potentially now huge competition for uni places.

Just an aside but I'm about to go into my final year.. the ones complaining the most about online learning are the ones who rarely turned up for lectures. We are a small cohort so I think the plan is for us to go in. I don't know what they will do about the course with 100+ per year group.

Sounds to me quite practical to have the lectures as recordings or live events that you can record. I would have loved that: to go back to them to review or revise. Indeed, front-loaded learning technique works like that anyway.

Cambridge are still doing tutorials face-to-face.

It would make sense to have a suite of options, as some pps in higher ed have already said are possible. Laboratories for science subjects are presumably geared up to be pretty safe from virus anyway ?!

Frankly, future university learning is going this way anyway - look at the collabs between the big tech companies and some US unis. I am in favour of excellent education being made available to the maximum number of eager learners possible, and that sort of combo of high tech and excellent educators is exciting.

I have no idea why any student would defer at this stage, seems like the worst idea: difficult to find a job, difficult to volunteer in person, difficult to travel. Better to get online and be learning.

They do have more tutorials/seminars and classes than at other universities but it still mostly lectures especially for humanities students.

For History at Cambridge the lectures do compromise the majority of the hours on paper but in practice most students consider their supervisions to be the central part of their learning around which all else revolves, even though it's only an hour a week.

All of our lectures are recorded as standard anyway. Students on my course can revisit lectures at anytime.

We're all working really hard to ensure that students still have a really positive experience - it will be different but that doesn't mean worse.

I'm currently a postgraduate student at Cambridge and the media reporting has really been completely incorrect. The colleges are preparing for there to be online lectures throughout 2020/21 but of course, if government guidelines change then so will the plan, and lectures will resume in person. Colleges are still planning to have students living on-site (at least, mine is!) and of course supervisions, seminars and classes will be in-person and socially distanced.

It's a worrying state of affairs that the vice-chancellors emails were leaked to varsity and then the BBC, because they don't have any of the nuance that has been expressed in the intra-university communications, and there is a range of plans for teaching and learning next year, all of which depend on the quickly changing situation around the virus!
I hope students who have offers don't decide to defer based on that article, mostly because it isn't always possible to defer and it would be a shame to lose their place on the course for that reason.
The biggest worry for me would be around the changes to college life. It's a really central aspect to the Cambridge undergrad experience and it would be a shame if that was lost. But as far as I know it should be possible to have students living in college, but big events like matriculation and formals may not come back this academic year.

@StrawberryBlondeStar

Did you tag the wrong poster? When did I talk about anyone deferring anything?

@AgileLass this is the case. If you look at the timetable of anybody doing a humanities degree at oxford or Cambridge, the majority of contact hours are lectures.

@LisaSimpsonsbff yes I understand many people value the supervisions and tutorials. I was simply refuting the incorrect information that the majority of contact hours for humanities students at Cambridge is supervisions and classes because it is most definitely lectures.

I think one of the other big issues is renting. Not only has my daughter missed half a year of teaching but she has also missed the interaction with other students and discussions (philosophy degree) but there was also the strike last semester followed by the four week strike before the pandemic. She has in no way whatsoever received value for her £9250 this year and for the rent that she has had to pay on her student house (her landlord flat-out refused to countenance any reduction in rent even though none of the students have been living there since online teaching). She had to sign a contract for her new property in January/February of this year for next year and leave her current house on 30 June whilst being unable to move in to the new property until 1 July. Again, her current landlord refused to let her stay there the extra night even with a promise of being out of the property by 6-7am the following morning. She explained that she can't get a hotel at present and we don't know if we will be able to so we will have to drive the 200 miles home with a car full of stuff just to drive up again.
And whilst I know that she has entered in to legal contracts to pay rents, these landlords have behaved scurrilously and I don't really care about their personal circumstances - she didn't ask for a refund or to be released, just a reduction of 20% if possible. Seems to me that those at the bottom of the food chain have to bear the biggest costs. And to top it all off, she may well be paying interest on her fee and maintenance loans for thirty years for a university experience she only actually experienced for 1.5 years.
At the very least, with all the cash Mr Sunak is splashing around he should ensure that students for this year and next should not have to pay interest on their loans.

I would have deferred for the fact it's unlikely pubs and clubs will be open for Freshers. I know that sounds pathetic, but there we are. It depends on the course really, I had loads of lectures and hardly any seminars etc; if you have mostly labs and stuff then it won't affect you as much.

TheWord the landlord will most likely have new tenants, entitled to move in on the 1st so will only have overnight to clean the house and do any work on it, if your dd's new LL does the same for their current tenants then their wouldn't be a house for her to go to on the 1st. From their point of view they're still providing the facility ie the house so deserve to be paid, the maintaince loans are still being paid. You have said that you don't care about the LLs personal circumstances so you can't expect really expect them to care about yours?

My dp works at a uni and has been working 11 hour days since lock down, constantly changing plans, trying to adapt, take care of Phd students etc. They're working incredibly hard to try and provide the best education they can.

InDubious
But it is not good enough though is it? I'm still working full-time but the service my organisation is providing is not the same as it was pre-lockdown.
Whilst they may deserve to be paid legally, morally it is not acceptable. These are young people they are dealing with and the financial buck stops with them for the next thirty years for a service that they cannot use in reality without setting up a new 'household'.
Whilst you may consider what your daughter is providing to be the best education that can be provided, and I have no doubt that she is working very hard - as am I, it is not what my child is paying for.
And it is my child that is dumped with the long-term debt.

Whilst you may consider what your daughter is providing to be the best education that can be provided, and I have no doubt that she is working very hard - as am I, it is not what my child is paying for.

What do you suggest then? Academics don't get paid? Universities go bust so your child doesn't even get a degree? Students are still being taught, libraries are running virtually, support services are still running, pastoral support is being provided.......

I want the interest on the debt written off!!
To somehow imply that it is my child's responsibility to ensure that the uni doesn't go bust or academics don't get paid is bizarre. You cannot seriously tell me that the experience and life skills that my child will acquire studying solely in her bedroom is the same as attending lectures, interacting and debating with other students on her course is ludicrous. It is barely more than an OU degree - which there is nothing wrong with at all, but it is not what my child is accumulating thousands in loans for.
And I hear what you say about what is to be done, but it is the students who are bearing the brunt of it financially and that is not fair.

Oh and the pastoral support has been non-existent.

Freshers might not have the full experience the first week, but I'm sure unis will work hard at other options. There are things like local walks/hikes, tea, wine, larger gin tastings, quizzes, a drink and movie night. I reckon they'll do these more often in smaller groups. It'll be a case of getting out of it what you can (like the rest of us at the moment). Freshers will have to live as a bubble in their flats, so get to know their flat mates well. Those in catered will have a pantry (DD was massive, I'm sure they could get the full 12 in with a 2m radius for each). One of DD's closest friends is the second girl she met in the room next to her.

DD's uni are clearing getting prepared. She's been notified of how they plan to operate. She'ss been given the choice of two zoom meetings where modules for first semester will be discussed in one course. As she has to study two subjects for her course, I'm sure she'll hear about other modules.

Mine and others that I know of are planning for a mixture of remote learning and some on campus delivery. Courses that need to be on campus will be prioritised.
We are planning on constantly reviewing the situation.
We want to get back to normal as soon as it's safe to do so.

we are also planning to be back on campus in September, but with social distancing in place, and PROPER thought for the safety of all students and all staff.

This may mean that some students& staff will be advised not to be in touch with groups of untested possible transmitters; staff & students who are immuno-compromised or diabetic or many of the other indicators for a bad C-19 outcome.

Clearly 200 students packed into an un-air conditioned lecture theatre with poor or no air circulation is a recipe for more than disaster. It would be highly irresponsible - reprehensible on the part of the university.

So it's likely that very few large group lectures will be in person. We are looking at teaching in mixed modes: some face to face (I just want a big canvas roof & I'll teach outside until December - seriously, that would be relatively safe for us all) and some online.

We are also discussing the minute details of how we ensure one-way systems in our buildings; where we will place hand sanitsiers, and how we will manage exit & entry to teaching spaces.

We are also looking at ways that we can manage a new "health contract" with students & staff: anyone with any viral symptoms (even the "common cold") will need to self-isolate for 14 days. No more "soldiering on." !

But the students should not miss out on 2 week's of teaching, nor should staff who may be OK, but symptomatic (mid C-19 or "normal" flu/cold), so we know that we'll always have to have a parallel online teaching stream, or those of us (students & staff) who can't be at seminars/small group teaching in person.

We are looking at extending the teaching day past 6:30pm - we already have the requirement that our teaching day is 8:30 to 6:30pm. We are looking at teaching across 4 terms - ie the summer break. So academic staff will lose their contracted research time - this will mean a temporary change in our employment contracts, and over a matter that is actually fundamental to our work.

We think this is the basic stuff we'll have to do - the scope of the task is immense. Imagine, 20,000 new unquarantined, untested people mingling in relatively closed spaces, and talking all the time! That's a description of university teaching ...

I think the schools & universities could very well be the so-called "second wave" of infections, and at universities, it will be staff (generally older) who will suffer. And die.

But yes, we are all desperate to at least TRY to teach face to face. We want to.

it would be a shame if that was lost

Totally agree. bUT it's also a shame if people become very ill (and the long-term effects are only just emerging) or die, really. It's an awful decision at the foundation of all our thinking.

Then she needs to complain to her university theword because lots of universities are still providing those services. She should still be getting that support.
In fact, students at my university and on my course have been offered more help and support and have arguably had more value for their money.

I totally agree the interest should be written off at least.

In fact, students at my university and on my course have been offered more help and support and have arguably had more value for their money

That made me snort. Really??

Care to explain why.....

A bizarre statement from someone who has admitted they couldn't be arsed turning up to their lectures....

Ultimately Universities with the introduction of the loan scheme have set themselves up as businesses

No, we haven't. A Tory government removed over 80% of our teaching grant. So the students pay, rather than the tax payer.

Although the way that the tuition fee loans are set up at the moment, it is still the tax payer who pays ...

@SueEllenMishke more value for money.... you can’t actually expect anybody to believe that