Furlough madness

[Katykitten2]

Surely I'm not the only one who thinks this furlough scheme, whilst deserving of some merit, is far too generous? At 80% there is little to encourage people to return to work since this other 20% is accounted for by the savings in petrol, coffees and other work related daily expenditure.
This has all got to be paid for remember.

I never asked to be furloughed! I didn't decide that I didn't want to work! I am on 80% wage, no top up. That brings my wage in at under £10000 a month. I am not saving on petrol as I walk to work. I don't buy coffees out, so no saving there. I am struggling massively. I would prefer to be in work and bringing home what I was earning before.
My outgoings are still exactly the same..
I take it you would prefer those furloughed to actually lose their jobs?

If only I could spend 20% of my pay on luxuries and work related spend. I had no choice to go on furlough, there’s no work, and need no encouragement to go back, I will return when my employer tells me to, which will happen when the work is (hopefully) there again.
I think businesses where some have been furloughed and others haven’t have some real challenges ahead in reestablishing good working teams. A horrible, bitter, divide has opened between the two groups and it’s going to be hard to move beyond that. A little more understanding (on both sides ) would go a long way.

There is a real mixture of experiences. Both my husband and I are working with the stresses of having the children but we are working and have financial security. There is a real variance of experience for the people I know on furlough. Some are biding their time until redundancies and are in a very precarious financial position, some are having a lovely time, some are living with great uncertainty. I know one family who has one parent furloughed with likely redundancies and the another with a small business that hadn’t been open long enough to receive government support. In the short term, they are having a much easier time than we are but in the medium-term, it will be tough for them.

I agree there are a mixture of experiences some people may be having a lovely time and are reluctant to go back .
But if your employer wants you back or the alternative is redundancy then you go back .
I'm really worried so yes I'm saving some money (petrol) not coffee as I don't buy them because when this is all over I'll have nothing . I've looked up redundancy I'm entitled to 1.5 weeks pay for every year I've worked there and I've worked there less than 2 years so it's not good .
I've never not worked except maternity leave and I'm really worried.

I don't think that business that were allowed to operate should have been allowed to furlough staff

Which businesses would that be?

Businesses which have furloughed have done it because they either aren't allowed to open, like hospitality industry or they cannot meet the social distancing health and safety requirements, like construction.

Think before you open your mouth!

Businesses which have furloughed have done it because they either aren't allowed to open, like hospitality industry or they cannot meet the social distancing health and safety requirements, like construction.

There are a a significant number of office based companies (City lawyers, etc) who have furloughed staff due to predicted drops in fee revenue. And topped their wages up to 100%. I know a couple of people sitting at home being paid their full £50-£100k salary.

It’s cold comfort as when redundancies inevitably strike, anyone furloughed will be the first to go, but there are businesses who really aren’t on their knees taking advantage of the scheme.

I don’t agree with you and just think you should put yourself in the shoes of someone who has their livelihood and career disrupted by this unexpected event. Furlough pay is helping people and businesses survive.

At 80% there is little to encourage people to return to work since this other 20% is accounted for by the savings in petrol, coffees and other work related daily expenditure

Furlough is the employer's decision, not the employee's. Ditto for returning to work. There is bugger all need to incentivise employees to return to work when it isn't actually their choice.

You know that if an employer says they need someone back, and that person refuses, they'll just be sacked, right? That's the incentive.

@jcurve if that's true first of all the furloughed is capped by the government so high earners won't get 100k salary, so if it's topped up to 100% the employer will be paying the majority of pay . So it wouldn't make sense to pay someone full pay for no reason unless they can't open .
2nd of all that's still no reason to direct the anger at furloughed staff , the op was angry because people saving money on petrol and coffee and that they should be encouraged to go back .
The high earners do not reflect the majority of the millions that are furloughed.

I'd be pretty annoyed if somebody at my workplace had a two month paid holiday and I was expected to work. But on the other hand furloughed workers are more vulnerable to losing their jobs.

I haven't been furloughed. But God I wished I had. I know that's selfish. I know I still have a job, which others may not have. But by God it's been tough. I've worked double the hours, more actually, just to keep on top of things.

I feel incredibly drained and desperate for some time off.

I too think it had been over generous and has gone on too long.

I believe that many jobs and industries should have and could have gone back already, but haven't.

And it's now extended till October. The Government is hoping that people will go back partly, so the portal claims will decrease, but I think it will be less than predicted , ie claims will still be higher than expected.

Businesses which have furloughed have done it because they either aren't allowed to open, like hospitality industry or they cannot meet the social distancing health and safety requirements, like construction.

Not entirely true. They are companies which have kept going with a skeleton staff and then furloughed some employees saying arguing have less work coming in. So still operating and using furlough.

I think furlough is entirely appropriate and fair for businesses told to close like hospitality but it seems some companies are using it to reduce their wage bill.

@imsooverthisdrama I’m not angry at anyone, I was giving a different perspective on how the furlough scheme is being used.

Fully functioning wfh professions are taking the first £2500 from the Government then topping up the remaining £ to give furloughed employees 100%. This is because they fear a steep fall off in fees now, but a resurgence when things reopen. If, as an employer, you can afford to top up an additional £2-4K on top of the government subsidy then arguably something has gone wrong with the application of the policy.

We can’t afford to continue subsidising people like this. I have no issues with people in travel, retail, hospitality etc being paid a government furlough but I object to well capitalised solicitors, accounting firms etc using it to subsidise their wage bill.

There were 32 million adults in employment at the start of the year but the economic geniuses on this thread would have quite happily seen a quarter of that go on the dole overnight. Somehow the economic carnage of that wouldn’t affect their job security one bit

Some people can’t grasp this. ^ Do you understand this, OP?

When it’s time for me to return to work - if that time comes which I bloody well hope it will - I won’t need any ‘encouragement’ thanks, just a start date.

And incidentally, my work expenses, what I spend my wages on, how much tax I’ve paid/am paying/will pay and how I spend my time when I’m furloughed, are none of your fucking business.

I think it's a good scheme, what do you think the amount should be? Remember it's based on basic salary so people who have commission etc to top up their salaries have lost that.

Even if a business is still operating but with skeleton staff they can still furlough people. They may have had a drop in income due to lack of orders etc therefore if they'd had to pay their staff jobs would have been lost as they couldn't afford it. People have also been furloughed due to shielding and lack of childcare.

I don't think millions are clamouring to be furloughed. What job security do you have @Katykitten2?

There are a a significant number of office based companies (City lawyers, etc) who have furloughed staff due to predicted drops in fee revenue.

Would that not be a knock on effect from the industry's forced to close or a knock on from industry forced to shut for SD?

Lawyers are often contacted to 3 mths notice, and long term people could be 3mths redundancy or longer. That sort of money could easily pull companies down making it harder for the economy to pull back after this is done.

The job retention scheme is there to support business and individuals. When businesses go bust, then the government picks up the tab for lost income and redundancy. As well as paying out millions of UC claims.

Sorry @jcurve I meant the op not you who was angry .
Yeah you make a valid point and I agree but it is capped thankfully . You are right some greedy capitalist will be abusing the system but for the majority it's helping people.

The portal guidelines will be relaxed by Sunak? Hopefully People can go back to work part time and instead of claiming 80% they claim 70% and the employer pays the rest.

and then 60% down to 50%, down to 40 down to 30 etc, as the employer has more orders the employer thus claims less from the portal.

DH & I are wfh & juggling small dc & it's hard & i'm tired. But we are. saving money (no travel, expensive lunches, reduced childcare, etc) & feel lucky.
m I'm not envious of furloughed staff who by default have more leisure time then me as they may lose their income.

I was furloughed for a month and estimate I've lost about £500. That's the difference between me paying my mortgage and not - thank goodness for the mortgage holiday scheme.

I spent my time at home trying not to worry about my job, and failing.

My employer asked me to come back and I burst into tears. I'm so happy to be back and doing something useful.

To those of you slagging off people on furlough, I wonder what you'd have suggested?

Also in regard to the comment about people saving money on furlough I don't see the issue with this if they don't have job security. If you're in hospitality of travel for example and you don't know if or when there will be a job to go back to so it's wise to save anything you can. A lot of people are in really precarious situations at the moment with skills that's aren't that necessary transferable.

I don't have any issue either with businesses that are obviously suffering like travel, some retail, hospitality. But thousands of firms are cashing in on the perk of saving on their wage bill and not losing equivalent income. Furlough payments should be repaid from their profits.