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Unions blocking schools re-opening?

291 replies

Confusedbutheyho · 12/05/2020 22:16

Just been off the phone to a friend who’s married to a teacher and they’re hearing a lot of conflicting news re unions.

Many are saying June won’t happen for re-opening. Is that possible that the unions veto it and stop it going ahead?

OP posts:
Flaxmeadow · 13/05/2020 00:24

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ScorpionQueen · 13/05/2020 00:26

If I really thought going back on 1st June was in the best interests of the children, I'd be happy to go back. It absolutely isn't.

SionnachRua · 13/05/2020 00:29

Good for the unions! I read that guidance given to school on reopening (I am not working in England) and it is a fucking shitshow. They're being thrown back in with no advice and every problem seems to be pushed back on them.

Every teachers first priority should be themselves and their own safety. If the department of education can't guarantee that then they should not be expected to attend in person.

SionnachRua · 13/05/2020 00:32

They make me so angry. It's all me me me. I thought teachers were supposed to be for the community and society as a whole . I thought it was a vocation?

A mentality constantly wheeled out whenever teachers are looking for better pay or trying to resist the latest pointless paperwork. It's a great job but it's just a fucking job. This vocation nonsense is used to beat teachers down and make them feel obliged to work huge amounts of overtime, run free activities, pay for materials out of their own pocket...

BertNErnie · 13/05/2020 00:34

@Flaxmeadow

Yes I am aware other people have gone back to work. And yes they will be mothers too.

That's fine for them if they feel their employer has done what's is needed in order to protect them where possible, however I don't currently feel the current government guidelines will necessarily protect me well enough. I've been at work looking after key worker children during the pandemic and we have managed this absolutely fine. I attended happily because I felt that the current rules enabled me to be better protected due to small group sizes etc.

My school has over 900 pupils and the government are asking for half of those to come back to school in 3 weeks when the daily death toll is still as high as it is, we don't have enough testing, tracking and tracing in place and are then asking us to potentially open to all pupils a couple of weeks after that. That's not safe with the current building we have and classroom sizes so I quite rightly am concerned.

Then there's the added factor that I am of a BME background so am 2x more likely to have a covid death than a non BME person.

Unions are there to protect their members and quite rightly so.

SudokuBook · 13/05/2020 00:34

I posted this on another thread but given schools were fully open with no social distancing and PPE until 20 March, just before lockdown and when R was 3, why are staff more worried about going back now when the infection rate is lower and cases will be less. I’m honestly not being goady, I genuinely don’t get it.

Flaxmeadow · 13/05/2020 00:35

No one ever answers the supermarket workers question do they?

What are they to you. Show room dummies?

I think supermarket workers are brave people, doing the right thing

CraftyGin · 13/05/2020 00:36

Because we don't want a second spike.

YounghillKang · 13/05/2020 00:36

I don’t know what shops others on this thread are referring to but I live close to a local high street with chain supermarkets and pharmacies. All staff are wearing masks and gloves, all tills closed off with Perspex screens, strips on floor to indicate 2 metre distance, restrictions on numbers entering, where possible customers sent to self service tills to pay. Some, such as the pharmacy, requires that people queue outside, only one person at a time allowed inside and if for prescriptions wait outside and then take the medicine out of a plastic basket that is left outside the door. So, in my area teachers would be getting far less protection than these other workers, and be exposed to much higher, sustained viral shedding, and that is not something that I would personally support. All workers should be provided with safe working environments and if that doesn’t happen for teachers and school staff, I hope they do refuse to enter schools, the government clearly won’t sort out appropriate resources except if put under extreme pressure. I am so tired, not a teacher btw, of the number of posters who blame teachers for circumstances that are not of their making, instead of laying this at the feet of those who are responsible for an ill-thought-out policy i.e. our current government. If they want schools to re-open they should consult with educational bodies and agree a plan to minimise risks to staff and to children.

And Flaxmeadow of course it’s political, no government is infallible, not every government is making the same decisions about how to manage this crisis, and clearly some are doing a lot better than others in containing the virus, and the decisions that specific governments make will affect how the virus impacts on their citizens. Our government has presided over (and arguably contributed to) an appallingly high death rate, given out mixed-messages, lack of PPE, ignored briefings on pandemic preparedness, allowed the virus to run rampant in care homes, ordered ventilators from cronies rather than taking part in the EU scheme, spent too long dithering over lockdown despite what was happening elsewhere in Europe. All of which strongly suggests that they are far from well-organised or fully trustworthy. And all governments under a democracy should be held up to scrutiny by those they supposedly represent, or would you prefer a dictatorship where no-one questions anything? And as for teachers ‘doing their bit’ that sounds suspiciously like the type of sloganeering designed to manipulate people into doing things that are unsafe, also a political, albeit stale, approach btw! It reminds me of the ways in which WW1 commanders cajoled men into going over the top of the trenches to certain doom...Teachers should not be set up to be the contemporary equivalent of cannon fodder.

YounghillKang · 13/05/2020 00:37

What's next? Flaxmeadown are you going to hand out white feathers to teachers who decide that safety should be paramount?

Concerned7777 · 13/05/2020 00:38

we are teaching a full time table online its going well

Not all children have internet access or a device each to work from every day. 3 dc here and only 1 laptop, how are my dc going to get a full timetable of education each like that? Do I pick who gets to learn each day?
In disadvantaged areas especially keeping schools closed will have catastrophic consequences for children. Presumably it's the law to send children to school and be educated because its essential for development and well being.

BertNErnie · 13/05/2020 00:38

Also whilst it IS about me, it's not exclusively so. I am also concerned about the virus spreading to the children in my school and in turn this spreading to their families and the wider community. We have already had covid deaths in our school and where possible, I'd quite like this not to occur again.l if we can help it.

Teaching IS a vocation I agree but it's also a job and at the end of the day those who are in the profession also have their own families to think about.

Whitestick · 13/05/2020 00:39

The latest guidance says staff who are "extremely clinically vulnerable" don't come in. I wonder what exactly that definition means
Identify staff who can’t return to school at this point (for example, those who are extremely clinically vulnerable or those who are clinically vulnerable or living with someone who is extremely clinically vulnerable and stringent social distancing cannot be adhered to on site) and how they can work from home (for example, supporting remote education).

waltzingparrot · 13/05/2020 00:40

How have European schools managed the return to school?

CraftyGin · 13/05/2020 00:40

@Confusedbutheyho

So those who can, shouldn't?

Whitestick · 13/05/2020 00:41

Flaxmeadow you do realise that many, many people are working from home or are furloughed? I'm not sure where you get the idea that everyone else has gone back (in) to work.

CraftyGin · 13/05/2020 00:43

@concerned7777

So those who can, shouldn't?

SudokuBook · 13/05/2020 00:43

Don’t get me wrong, I actually think schools should remain closed for now, but I don’t get why people are now terrified to go to work when the virus was more prevalent before than now

SudokuBook · 13/05/2020 00:44

The latest guidance says staff who are "extremely clinically vulnerable" don't come in. I wonder what exactly that definition means

I think that’s the people in the shielded group

BertNErnie · 13/05/2020 00:45

@SudokuBook hindsight is a wonderful thing. If teachers knew the R rate was at 3 before we closed, I'd have expected mass closings earlier as people realised what was happening and stayed at home. Just because I didn't get sick then, doesn't mean I wouldn't get sick now and it's about managing the risk.

No teachers I know are asking for schools to stay shut, we are asking for our working conditions to be safe when we return. The 5 tests haven't even been met yet but we are sending pupils back to school? It doesn't make sense to me to do this right now.

Supermarket workers near where I live all have gloves and some are protected by screens. Some are not. My local Tesco is operating strict in and out procedures and limiting the number of people in. I'm asking for a system to be in place for me to return to work - something I've seen in my local supermarkets and also in my local B&Q.

caringcarer · 13/05/2020 00:46

Any teacher that has the official shielding letter will not have to return to classroom in June. Others who are obese, male, BAME, or have any other underlying health issue but not on shielding list probably will have to. I keep sending in my child's work but in all this time not one piece of work marked and grades sent back. We may be unlucky. Have others had work marked and grades communicated to child?

CraftyGin · 13/05/2020 00:48

@sudokubook

2 months ago, the virus was not very prelavent but the R-factor was 3. Now it is much more widespread, with an R-factor of just below 1.

We need to keep the R-factor well below 1, which is why we need to either ban or PPE large gatherings.

Flaxmeadow · 13/05/2020 00:48

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Concerned7777 · 13/05/2020 00:49

@CraftyGin so those who can shouldn't?

Sorry I dont understand?

teaandajammydodger · 13/05/2020 00:49

I don’t mind my school opening and me working in it. I DO mind not being given enough time to properly plan for this and I DO mind being expected to open to so many children at the same time! My school has 12 classrooms. With groups of 15 and the vulnerable and key worker children all in the 8 will be filled. I don’t have enough space for all of the priority year groups to come back. The huge problem is the lack of time and the number of categories of children we are being told to allow back right away.

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