Unions blocking schools re-opening?

[Confusedbutheyho]

Just been off the phone to a friend who’s married to a teacher and they’re hearing a lot of conflicting news re unions.

Many are saying June won’t happen for re-opening. Is that possible that the unions veto it and stop it going ahead?

All the schools here are like this.

Really? Are you in an alternate universe? I know of no schools doing this apart from the couple I've read about online.

'Why can I teach children but not see my grandchildren’

This is such a pointless comment, it’s not unique to teachers. I have to go to work and see people there; but I’m not allowed to see my DP. How is that different?

Guidance clearly states shielding staff should remain at home.

Could you link please? The best practice guidance to employers says that but to.my knowledge the government have said that is not the case for schools, in the same way that the PPE and distancing guidance does not apply to schools.*
*

As others have said, the Unions are teachers. If teachers, like other workers, want to have a chance of staying safe they need to join a union and look after each other.

Unions have for too long been seen as the enemy of the masses when in reality they’re normal people doing their utmost to make sure they’re not pushed about by people who aren’t in their shoes.

If schools don’t open because of unions it because teachers don’t think that it’s safe for themselves or our children to be there,

Do you trust their judgement or the judgement of a government who are killing by stealth?

The only way ordinary workers can have a voice is to join a union. If I didn’t already belong to one that would be my first job tomorrow.

Bold fail but the screenshot is from govt guidance stating shielding staff, inc in education should stay home.

The shielding wording "staff are strongly advised...." is to stop staff attending not vice versa. Heads cannot make people in the shielding group go to work.

Although this study was covered in parts of the media, the government has barely breathed a word about it and parents have no idea whether it has informed their decision.

I've read three studies and a summary of a fourth, there may be others. The problem is that your statement about not passing on is based on contact tracing of just one kid in each case.

There is an Icelandic study which strongly suggests kids get the illness less but testing of children who do have it indicates similar viral load to adults, so a mechanism for them not passing on is unclear.

I suspect the haven't leant on this topic because the extent of the risk reduction from kids is very unclear.

@Flaxmeadow

Why would you expect the children in school to be taught at the moment?

For a start the group will be all different ages and staff have been specifically told not to teach. We can not be seen to be putting those children at home at a disadvantage. It’s a babysitting service and nothing more.

Secondly if your daughter is able to keep her children home she should be, unless they are classed as vulnerable (not medically vulnerable).

As for school contact, I think that needs to be taken up with the school. I’m making daily phone calls; I’m making videos and uploading them, plus PowerPoint presentations, plus worksheets; I’m assessing work and feeding back on the same day and setting children amendments to help push them to make some form of progress. I leave daily material of interest, links to resources etc. My school actually did a questionnaire for parents who feel that what we are setting their children is excessive. We have seen the quieter children who normally blend in and get forgotten, absolutely flying! I have children emailing me just to see how I am and I email back promptly for a short chat.

My own son is getting pretty much the same from his school, so I know we aren’t a one-off. Your daughter shouldn’t sit back and accept this. She should be contacting the school and demanding an albeit online education for her children.

No schools will be reopening

What about the ones that never shut?

I think teachers will strike tbh

I'm a school governor and our HT wanted refuse to stay open and tried to get other local schools to join him. The LA asked us to remove HT from post. That was fun.

They ARE key workers - they ARE at school for key workers children !

But once you want to bring in 3 year groups it's a different ball game and of course they're going to want to be safe

I would have sympathy for teachers if they were teaching children using technology, but I understand they are not. Why? Private schools seem to be managing to do it quite successfully. 'Unions' have advised teachers in State Schools not to, why?

Most of us are teaching and using technology - just not live lessons because that goes against union and DofE advice and according to the EEF has little if any educational merit.

I am working every day, planning, delivering and giving feedback.

The NUTty lady demanding peer reviewed studies was a bit deluded. How can you have peer reviewd studies 5 months into an ongoing epidemic? She might have impressed a few people though.

Employers have to ensure either/both social distancing or PPE, and also be mindful of wider risks, such a use of public transport and vulnerability within families.

I can't see how this would work in my school. If we stagger start times and break times, how could we establish a timetable. I know it is possibly feasible in a big school, but not in a small one like mine. We are also too bijoux to be able to put screens up in corridors.

The net result is that my employers cannot meet the requirements for reopening. So we won't.

But we also fulfil the requirements to work from home if you can. We are teaching a full timetable online, and it is going well.

Teachers are able to record audio, or may record video if they wish.
It is not advisable to live stream at all.

When you conference call, other people, namely pupils, can decide to do, show, act however they wish, all on camera. That can be recorded by others. Parents can witness this behaviour which the teacher is powerless to stop. Examples of things that have happened when live streaming is used are:
Pupils decides to hold up, show, present a pornographic image.
Pupils takes over whiteboard and begins to draw penis’ for all to see.
Pupils screenshot each other and share these funny/embarrassing pictures on social media. (You can click on any name and the face will suddenly take up the whole screen).
Parents have tried to engage. Parents have recorded the teacher and shared in social media, rather than complaining about quality of ‘lesson’.
Etc
These were some of the examples given to us as a staff when we questioned using Zoom or Meets with children.

Not to mention we would be able to see into their homes/ their private spaces/ hear their families in the background. It’s an invasion of privacy all around and whilst you might have a lovely space for the child to sit and use Zoom appropriately, not everyone will and they’ll all be on the same call.

Why would you expect the children in school to be taught at the moment?

I don't

For a start the group will be all different ages and staff have been specifically told not to teach. We can not be seen to be putting those children at home at a disadvantage. It’s a babysitting service and nothing more.

I know all this but that wasnt my point

Secondly if your daughter is able to keep her children home she should be, unless they are classed as vulnerable (not medically vulnerable).

She does, she tried the school and took grandchild out. It wasnt clear at the start who was eligible for school

As for school contact, I think that needs to be taken up with the school. I’m making daily phone calls; I’m making videos and uploading them, plus PowerPoint presentations, plus worksheets; I’m assessing work and feeding back on the same day and setting children amendments to help push them to make some form of progress. I leave daily material of interest, links to resources etc. My school actually did a questionnaire for parents who feel that what we are setting their children is excessive. We have seen the quieter children who normally blend in and get forgotten, absolutely flying! I have children emailing me just to see how I am and I email back promptly for a short chat.

What age group is this?

My own son is getting pretty much the same from his school, so I know we aren’t a one-off. Your daughter shouldn’t sit back and accept this. She should be contacting the school and demanding an albeit online education for her

She's too busy saving lives and BTW she only got PPE last week

I am so sickened by the thought that teachers might strike and that they would be encouraged to do this by a union or the Labour party

I grew up supporting the unions, all my family were heavily unionised and so was I, especially when I was young and I still believe in it now, but to strike while all this crsis is going on is foul and disgusting.

@RoseannelovesDan The university of Anglia East found that closing schools was the single most effective way of stopping virus spreading.

If I thought I was at risk and my employer was not making my working environment as safe as possible for me I'd strike in a heartbeat - in the middle of a pandemic or not.

My school can always hire another teacher whereas my children unfortunately can't get another mother of something happens to me.

The NUTty lady demanding peer reviewed studies was a bit deluded. How can you have peer reviewd studies 5 months into an ongoing epidemic?

Not everyone is a scientist. The studies I mentioned upthread haven't been traditionally peer reviewed yet but have certainly been subjected to scrutiny and are (within the logistical limitations of a pandemic) absolutely of the standard one would expect of a peer reviewed journal.

I think the point is that there isn't solid evidence that kids don't pass on the infection, indeed it's unlikely that could be the case.

It's not a strike matter.

Surely the June 1 date is an aim rather than a diktat?
Infection rates may be substantially lower (or not) by then and things could look very different.
I hope individual headteachers will be free to make the right decision for their own schools and families and have a phased in start to lifting the lockdown.
I don’t think I’d be happy with three full years plus nurseries and childminders all coming back now if I were a teacher.
Once test, trace and isolate plus a significant drop in infection happens I might feel differently.
Maybe each year coming in for a few half days a week on rotation at first?

There’s not enough guidance and all the things that need to be in place to ease the lockdown do not feel close to being in hand.

A growing body of research exists to show that primary school aged children pose little risk to the spread of the virus. There has not been a single case of a child under 10 passing on coronavirus in contact tracing carried out by the World Health Organisation and a study by the Royal College of Paediatricians and Child Health found the evidence ‘consistently demonstrates reduced infection and infectivity of children in the transmission chain’. Although this study was covered in parts of the media, the government has barely breathed a word about it and parents have no idea whether it has informed their decision.

The fact Sweden hasn’t become another NYC or Bergamo is pretty good circumstantial
evidence that primary school children are not effective spreaders of Coronavirus.

Honestly, hand on heart... who on here would be willing to go in and spend 8 hours a day in a class of 4/5/6 year olds right now?

If yes - why not volunteer - because your school is going to be really strapped for staff.

If no - sit down next to me. I'm not a teacher and there's no way I'd want to be in such a contagious situation right now. I know from the bottom of my heart that kids spread disease really, really well.

@Flaxmeadow

I teach secondary, but primary schools locally are implementing similar things for juniors. Obviously it’s more challenging with infants, who cannot as easily or safely access the IT. I don’t know the age of your grandchildren.

Personally, I’ve made myself a lovely Harry Potter mask and I’m ready to get back to work. I’d go tomorrow if I could. But it’s not just about me. It’s about everyone, including children and their families.
If it’s too soon for NEXT to open, where you’ll only ever see 10 or 15 people shopping at any given time...and it’s too soon for the cinema to open, where again you’ll see less people than in your average primary school, how can the government say it’s safe for staff to return to school without suitable guidelines to follow? It’s clearly a ‘risk’ they’re willing to take, where they wouldn’t take less risky ‘risks’.

Live streaming lessons is also not fair on those who are sharing laptops, workspaces etc. I pre record my lessons so students can work at a time that suits them. I am available on teams to answer questions