Unions blocking schools re-opening?

[Confusedbutheyho]

Just been off the phone to a friend who’s married to a teacher and they’re hearing a lot of conflicting news re unions.

Many are saying June won’t happen for re-opening. Is that possible that the unions veto it and stop it going ahead?

How long Is acceptable to keep schools closed then? Are we assuming that Coronavirus will be eradicated by September? I cant see what measures could be put in place in September that would be different from June?

At the moment it seems like the policy is no PPE of any kind and shielding teachers being forced in.

Guidance clearly states shielding staff should remain at home. Stop scaremongering.

The public will because they've seen how hard others with no PPE, distancing etc have worked, all the way through this crisis and without complaining. Supermarket staff for example

Yes the public seem thrilled about doctors and nurses dying from a lack of PPE.

I'm beginning to believe that some people have got quite used to being off and do not want to go back.

Teachers are not off. Trying to teach from home is a nightmare.

MadameMinimes - that's awful

I would certainly support schools not reopening until Sept at the earliest - not only because of the risk to teachers which unions are (obviously) concerned about, but because the evidence is clear that schools closing helps reduce total death rate and schools reopening increases it.

Those who support schools reopening need to remember that even if they are not bothered about the risks to teachers, , this will also increase the risks for all parents ie everyone.

The "unions" are their members. Not a separate force working to prevent anything. The NEU is asking the government to provide the scientific rationale and the modelling they are using to make the decision. They are acting in behalf of members to insist on the safety of their members.

What other unions (ie groups of people employed in a certain sector) did or didn't do isn't relevant. It isn't a race to the bottom. Just because some people work in unsafe conditions, doesn't mean teachers should.

As to online live lessons, this has been done to death. Even the DfE says it isn't a good idea for safeguarding reasons. Lots of children don't have sole access to a device or stable enough Internet connection. Videos could be made of teachers and/or other pupils and editing and shared online- this happens already with other images/videos of staff. Many teachers will be homeschooling/caring for their own children. It means letting your pupils into your home, behaviour management could be very tricky. I've taught in private and stste- the private schools didn't need much behaviour management. They come from middle class, motivated families who see the worth in education and therefore cooperation is high. This isn't the case for some pupils in the state sector.

Temperature checks are impractical and not helpful (you generally know if you have a temperature). Masks are generally to protect others, not the wearer. Trust me you don’t want to be wearing a mask and visor all day. How would you teach in that?!

Guidance clearly states shielding staff should remain at home.

Could you link please? The best practice guidance to employers says that but to.my knowledge the government have said that is not the case for schools, in the same way that the PPE and distancing guidance does not apply to schools.

Stop scaremongering.

Why be childish and rude. If I'm mistaken just provide a link. I'll be pleased if I'm wrong.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-school-closures/guidance-for-schools-about-temporarily-closing

Point 7.3

I’m sorry for teachers, but confrontations between unions and Tory governments always end the same way. One way or another schools will reopen.

There is other risks to children not just the risk of covid. The risk of neglect and abuse in the home, poverty, domestic violence, emotional physical and social development delays, mental health issues. These need to all be taken into account. Not all children at home for months on end are "safe" or "healthy "

Temperature checks are impractical and not helpful (you generally know if you have a temperature).

Kids certainly don't identify slight fever well. Temperature scanners are used effectively at airports and are used in schools in other countries; why would they be unhelpful in schools here?

Trust me you don’t want to be wearing a mask and visor all day.

I'm well aware. I actually think the best solution would be kids in them. The basic visors are not too bad and I think worth it for at risk staff.

Stop scaremongering.

Why be childish and rude. If I'm mistaken just provide a link. I'll be pleased if I'm wrong.

Just getting slightly annoyed with the amount of rubbish people are spouting that has no basis in facts.

The shielding guidance has been one of the only explicitly clear parts of the guidance.

donquixotedelamancha

It says here "Clinically extremely vulnerable individuals are advised not to work outside the home." and "Staff in this position are advised not to attend work"

Those who are vulnerable but not extremely vulnerable/shielding should "support remote education, carry out lesson planning or other roles which can be done from home" where possible or otherwise "they should be offered the safest available on-site roles, staying 2 metres away from others wherever possible"

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-school-closures/guidance-for-schools-about-temporarily-closing

Isn't that the guidance for the current situation?

The other major safeguarding concern with live teaching online is of intruders getting into the lesson and sharing child pornography and other illegal material. It's happened.

Yes the public seem thrilled about doctors and nurses dying from a lack of PPE

No one has said that.

Yes people have died, I know people who have died and its horrible, but people have been working in jobs that are a lot more risky than teachers and just got on with it as best they can.

Did you see supermarket staff threatening to walk out? Do you think teachers will get much sympathy from them, or their friends and relatives?

Teachers are not off. Trying to teach from home is a nightmare

All my grandchildren have had from school is an education pack through the letterbox. No teacher has ever contacted their parents. The school is empty apart from 10 children of key workers and they don't do lessons either.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings#shielded-and-clinically-vulnerable-adults

Apologies, correct link above.

All my grandchildren have had from school is an education pack through the letterbox. No teacher has ever contacted their parents. The school is empty apart from 10 children of key workers and they don't do lessons either.

Sample size 1 school does not mean all schools are this crap. Get in touch with the school.

'Why can I teach children but not see my grandchildren’ - well if everyone thought that way society would be fucked. Because one’s a job and presumably necessary for you to survive and pay the bills.

Sample size 1 school does not mean all schools are this crap. Get in touch with the school

They did but the office is closed and theres just a automated voice. All the schools here are like this.

What now?

Children are suffering by being not being at school, abuse, neglect, not seeing their peers, stuck in the the same room for months. Why aren't teachers fighting to go back? Why is it everyone else has to say these things and not teachers?

This is interesting

A growing body of research exists to show that primary school aged children pose little risk to the spread of the virus. There has not been a single case of a child under 10 passing on coronavirus in contact tracing carried out by the World Health Organisation and a study by the Royal College of Paediatricians and Child Health found the evidence ‘consistently demonstrates reduced infection and infectivity of children in the transmission chain’. Although this study was covered in parts of the media, the government has barely breathed a word about it and parents have no idea whether it has informed their decision.

There’s nothing in that guidance that says teachers can’t have visors. It just says you cannot require staff or children to wear face coverings. It doesn’t say staff can’t have them if they want them.

WyfOfBathe

Thanks. I hadn't seen today's one. It does appear to be very similar to the existing one. It raises a couple of issues:

1. Strongly advised is not the same as telling schools what to do- heads don't have to do it. I'm in the 'clinically vulnerable' group on two risk factors and just outside the 'clinically exceptionally vulnerable' group for technical reasons, yet my head insists I teach as normal, on a rota, at the moment.

1. For the schools which do follow the guidelines that will mean even more staff off.

Did you see supermarket staff threatening to walk out?

I hardly think asking practical questions is threatening to walk out.

Unions wont waste this opportunity to try and bring down a Tory government. Any chance to further their cause. Hopefully they will be hamstrung before they can destroy our economy.

If I recall correctly, it doesn't say "you cannot require them" it says "they are not required", which has a very different meaning. It doesn't say they can't wear them. Like everything else, it sounds slick and then when you think about it, you could interpret it five different ways.