Unions blocking schools re-opening?

[Confusedbutheyho]

Just been off the phone to a friend who’s married to a teacher and they’re hearing a lot of conflicting news re unions.

Many are saying June won’t happen for re-opening. Is that possible that the unions veto it and stop it going ahead?

But clearly more people will need childcare now that people are being encouraged to go back to work and lots of people who are not key workers would like to send their children to school.

People who keep saying ‘Teachers won’t get much sympathy if they strike’ etc are missing the important fact that they’re not looking for sympathy.

Its irrelevant if they're looking for sympathy or not. The point is they wont get any because they're unprepared to take the same risks, or even less risk, that others are taking all the time and have taken since the lockdown, when the risk of infection was greater

Why do teachers think they're different to everyone else?

They’re looking for the same safety rules as applied to the rest of the society. Sympathy is as useful as their current PPE provision.

Supermarket staff get no PPE, many care home staff didnt get any either at the start of lockdown. Did they refuse to work?

And tbh the problem with people being shitty and unpleasant about teachers so regularly (in general) is that no was it actually doesn’t matter what you think.

No one is being shitty about teachers. People want to know why they will not consider going back to work. Its genuinely baffling to a lot of people. Cant you see that? Why is it everytime a thread appears about this, with others making sensible suggestions to make schools safer, those suggestions are shouted down without consideration

By being nasty and complaining about them year in year out (insert snide comment about ‘long holidays’ here) you’ve created a status quo where teachers are used to being seen as the bad guys and don’t give a toss whether you ‘sympathise’ with their need to be safe or not

Why shouldn't people complain. What do you want. That no one questions teachers about this, that teachers are beyond reproach? Well yes because everytime there is a teacher thread there are calls by teachers for the thread to be taken down. Calls for censorship on the subject

If a post is rude or offensive then it can be reported and deleted, but please dont tell us not to discuss it when the subject of schools reopening affects everyone, not just teachers

Schools reopening will have risk for parents, even some grandparents as well. Have any of you thought of that and what about the risks to children staying off school?.

There is always risk, there is risk using a supermarket or public transport and working in those jobs, but we can only reduce risk, not get rid if it completely, but everytime anyone suggests ways of minimising risk, they get shouted down on these boards by teachers, even nastily. Teachers have had comments removed as well

Sorry teachers you're no more special than retail staff, public transport workers, care home workers and so on. Who are all taking responsibility for keeping the country going and doing the best they can in difficult circumstances. Join them and start coming up with some good ideas for safety, instead of constantly being so negative all the time.

Sorry teachers you're no more special than retail staff, public transport workers, care home workers and so on. Who are all taking responsibility for keeping the country going and doing the best they can in difficult circumstances. Join them and start coming up with some good ideas for safety, instead of constantly being so negative all the time.

👏 I could not agree more.

Flax do you not get bored spending so much time banging on about how much you dislike teachers? Were you the one who suggested having 30 buckets of water in a classroom for kids to wash their hands in 😂
Literally every thread related to teaching you’re here having a go about how teachers think they’re all that. What makes you have so much contempt for us?

Kids certainly don't identify slight fever well. Temperature scanners are used effectively at airports and are used in schools in other countries; why would they be unhelpful in schools here?

Non-touch thermometers have been out of stock with school suppliers since January. When (if) you get one, they work from a distance, but not 2m (unless you presumably pay more than a hundred quid).

Most schools, due to the expense, are likely to have either disposable ones or the ear type - both of which involve getting close. Or they have crappy feverstrips because they were so cheap.

Somebody has to take all those temperatures.

how do people think I caught it if it wasn't from checking temperatures multiple times a day

@Flaxmeadow agreed. You question anything school related and it gets piled on as a teacher bashing thread.

If the private sector (both schools and other business) refuse to adapt they will go under and not get paid. So they are adapting, putting in safe practices.

Some teachers refusal to even engage in process is shocking. If you need more classrooms, sinks etc, staff - fine - set that out as your requirements to reopen, but just refusing to engage (as unions recommend) is not acceptable.

Flax you’re spectacularly missing the point (perhaps deliberately).

My point is the public opinion (including your blatant dislike of teachers) is irrelevant because teachers are used to being vilified.

If you bothered to read and listen you’d see they are trying to come up with ideas to be safer. But unfortunately they’re dictated to by government guidelines that are blatantly unsafe and unworkable.

Go ahead and blame the teachers - it won’t change facts.

However, while I think the supermarket workers and others at work just now without ppe are very brave and I'm grateful to them, with all due respect teaching a primary 1 class is very different to their role - not many people will need help blowing their nose in the supermarket or will lick their friends or will need you to lean over them to show them how to complete some work. They won't need help to tie their laces or open their snack.

But supermarket staff have to put up with thousands of people, including children, all day long. People who crowd in, there is no social distancing in shops and supermarkets, it's impossible. People who hold their credit cards in their mouth while fumbling around. People who pick produce up and put back on the shelf constantly and no on knows what any of their hygiene practices are. Handle cash all the time. Have people getting close and breathing on them. Supermarket staff have been spat on by shoplifters and drunks, who are not often known for being in good health or practice good hygiene, and angry customers. The police have as well. All with no PPE

I'm first aider - every day I deal with scrapped knees and nose bleeds. This might need more than just the rubber gloves I use if I'm lucky enough to find them.

You think supermarket staff dont deal with this kind of thing all the time? Really? You think some supermarket staff are not trained as first aiders as well for good reasons

The thing is - it’s wrong for ANYONE to have to work without PPE in a customer/person facing role. Supermarkets need to have this in place too. The “well they don’t have it so teachers should shut up” is bollocks - we should all have PPE (ideal world). Also teaching unions are always very vocal and schools reopening (without social distancing) affects more people than supermarket staff not having PPE so it will get more traction in the media, which I’m not saying is fair. I don’t personally know any teacher who is planning to refuse to go in (I’m sure there are many though).

This “you think you’re BETTER THAN EVERYONE!” shit is so boring. Everyone should have the adequate protection. Care homes as a priority over schools imo. Teachers are not #1, but they are part of a large group of workers who are expected to be at work without protection by a Tory government who historically could not give less of a shit about workers rights. If you choose to twist that into some weird “teachers are arrogant” shit then you are SPECTACULARLY missing the entire point.

Personally I would have hoped that unions would have kicked off about supermarket staff too.

Do you understand that teachers are not one hive mind? LOADS of teachers are not planning to strike. Also, teachers are IN work now, which has been explained to you many times on different threads, but you choose to say they aren’t because your grandkid’s school isn’t doing much.

You are. All the fucking time.

As far as I'm aware. I've had no comment removed on a teacher thread

Please can you stop swearing at me.

@Chillipeanuts

I too don’t understand why Sweden is being used as a point of reference. Considering they have one of the highest death rates per million and this hasn’t exactly been a secret, they are also heading towards the same economic downturn despite it being business as usual.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-sweden-nears-horrifying-deaths-coronavirus.amp

Do you really not know Flax. It’s been pointed out to you over again on numerous threads?

Supermarket staff have plastic screens and floor markings which adults stick to and ensure social distancing. In my supermarket they don’t touch cards which are located in a small hole in their cubical.

When all teaching staff and children have their own individual plastic shelter alongside floor markings which children are enforced to stick to them I guess schools can be blasé.

As it is heads are responsible for staff and children. Parents like you will be the first to complain when little Johnny complains that his friends aren’t adhering to social distancing and he used contaminated equipment.

It’s so weird to hear “this group of workers would like adequate protection in the workplace” and react to it with “well this group don’t so shut up!!!!” Rather than “this is a systematic failure typical or the Tory government and we should ALL be campaigning for safe working conditions”

Flax did you vote for thatcher by any chance 🤔

Not to mention the outrage when they realise little Johnny is being ‘taught’ by an MDSA because there are not enough teaching staff to halve classes. Nothing wrong with MDSA’s at all, but can you imagine? People spit feature if they think their child’s class is covered by a TA.

Flax meadow listen to James OBrien on LBC you have characteristically and ignorantly fallen into an untrue narrative and have no thought about this at all. Listen ti the show, get a clue then come back and spew your lies and bile.

Yes but unfortunately there is a worldwide shortage of PPE and the ones who need it most are health care workers. So they come first in the PPE list of occupations. This is how it must be for now.

So your solution is to just get everyone to know their place, shut up, and get on with it? Over 60 school staff have died of this in England and Wales, which is quite a lot considering schools have been shut for the whole lockdown.

Flax did you vote for thatcher by any chance

Absolutely not. I vehemently opposed Thatcher. Many of my family were coal miners, and as I pointed out earlier, I come from a heavily unionised background. But the miners strike was not during a massive crisis like this and it did not generally put children at risk.

I might have opposed the miners strike if it had meant children going without heating in winter, but because the strike was in the 1980s, when domestic heating didn't rely on coal so much, as it would have 20 years earlier, that wasn't the case.

And it’s not just CV health and safety that needs to be adhered to all the other issues such as staffing numbers, sun cream application, shade, supervision in playgrounds, children carrying lunch trays with hot food etc still carry on. Then there is personal care re wet pants, cutting food, comforting etc before you actually get to teaching and looking at work, sorting fall outs etc.

All school staff want to go back but you can’t just say open in 3 weeks without some serious planning which the gov clearly haven’t done. All the responsibility falls on the shoulders of heads and academies. I can’t imagine the stress many are currently going through.

I have children and I want them safe. I also want myself safe. I’ve put myself at far more risk over the past few weeks in school with very limited numbers than any supermarket member of staff I’ve come across.

The supermarkets around me have ppe when I last visited.

Lidl: Perspex screens at tills and staff members in aprons, gloves and some in masks.

Sainsbury's: as above. Marked floors for social distancing.

Small Co-Op: As above.

There have been thread after thread on why teachers still have jobs, why they are still getting paid, why aren't they doing live streamed lessons etc, with plenty of posters being shitty about them so claiming that no one has is a flagrant lie.

I teach part time and I am still working through lockdown. I have met up with some students on Teams to go through work with them and used live chat or audio for answering any queries. To be honest, I find this more draining and would happily return to college if our principal decided it was safe to do so.

Flax you do know the majority of teachers have been in work since the 20th March on a rota, volunteering over Easter and also wfh in other tasks as well as setting work? Only those clinically vulnerable haven't.

The debates and queries by unions etc are around managing more pupils safely and this hasn't been established yet how this possible.

Senior leaders and governors are drawing up risk assessments at the moment for their individual settings. At the moment things aren't safe for staff or pupils. The 1st of June is the earliest some schools may attempt to operate with those three year groups.

And ppe is being discussed as necessary for some settings and there's currently a shortage.

Teaching is one of the most stressful jobs as it is (according to a lot of data; google it) because children often don't comply with the ideal, because they're children. Every teacher has a plan a, b c for all lessons (more in sen) and for this challenge we only get one plan and it has to work.

My Sainsbury’s have cubicles with tiny openings for card readers they don’t touch.

Are we expecting the same to be rigged up in classrooms? How do we keep children in them and to adhere to floor stickers at all time? Is it zero playtime sessions as clearly no child is be able to stay apart at the correct distance then from what I’ve seen. There certainly won’t be the staff to enforce it alongside staggered lunches. I’ve been doing a fair amount of cleaning alongside teaching with zero PPE. Do other cleaners have zero protection?