Unions blocking schools re-opening?

[Confusedbutheyho]

Just been off the phone to a friend who’s married to a teacher and they’re hearing a lot of conflicting news re unions.

Many are saying June won’t happen for re-opening. Is that possible that the unions veto it and stop it going ahead?

I answered the question about supermarket worked.

Workers*

What's next? Flaxmeadown are you going to hand out white feathers to teachers who decide that safety should be paramount?

Whose safety?

Unions are protecting teachers and staff that work in schools. They have given the government their 5 tests to ensure safety for their members and their pupils.

They are working with the government to ensure its safe. If it's not headteachers won't open the schools.

This summed it up for me :

I see a lot of friends with children posting on facebook about whether they should send their children back to school, so as a Primary School Headteacher I thought it might be worth sharing my thoughts.

First of all teachers and Headteachers will do everything they can to make their schools as safe as possible. No one goes into teaching for the pay, the work life balance or the holidays, if they did they wouldn't still be in the job. Teachers go into the profession because they care about children, your children. But as much as they care about your children they cannot make it 100% safe. The government guidelines sent to us at 8:17pm on Monday evening are lengthy, at times contradictory and in many places impractical.

To give one simple example of their impracticality, I have 20 classes in my School and 20 classrooms. I could repurpose two other rooms as classrooms, possibly three. At the beginning of June I am supposed to take in Nursery, Reception, Year 1 and Year 6, so 50% of children plus vulnerable and Key worker children in other year groups. They have to be in classes of no more than 15 children, so each class is split in half. I therefore need 20 classrooms plus one additional one for vulnerable and key worker children. 21 classrooms needed 23 available, so that's doable. By July I'm supposed to have all year groups back but taught in groups of 15, therefore I need 40 classrooms. So come July either all the children won't be back, or they will be taught in classes of 30 or I will have to build 17 new classrooms in less than 2 months. That's just the practical building problem, I've not even started on trying to staff it! So, schools will do everything possible to try to make things as safe as possible, but it wont be 'safe', and they won't be able to follow all the Government guidelines,

How safe will it be then? The simple answer is I don't know, I'm not a health professional or even a virologist, I was trained to teach children how to read, write, add up and take away! But I have been to Tesco once a week over the last 7 weeks. I've qued patiently outside, had my trolly wiped before I went in, followed the arrows on the floor and kept 2m away from anyone else . Yet I still try to spend as little time there as possible. That level of calm and social distancing is something I will aspire to in school, but is something I don't think it is possible to attain, or to be perfectly honest, get anywhere near. Children will not social distance, they will hug each other, they will play with each other, they will touch each other, and everything in the classroom, corridors, toilets, playgrounds etc. So ask yourself this question. If you could take your children to the supermarket with you at the moment would you do it? And if you would, would you be happy to stay in there several hours with them? If the answer is yes to both of those questions think about sending your child into school (but do genuinely think about it, school will not be as safe as the supermarket). If the answer is no to either question, don't even think about it.

Finally, trust the teachers and the Headteacher at your child's school. They care about your child and have their best interests at heart. If they say something is not possible, even if the school down the road is doing it, it's not possible. They will have thought through all options and there will be genuine reasons why they have taken the decisions they have, and they may not be able to share those reasons with you. Trust them, back them and support them, they will be doing the best they possibly can for your child.

Incase anyone hasn't seen these tests here they are:

Below we outline our own 5 tests we think the Government must meet before moving to the further opening of schools.

5 Tests

We want to begin to re-open schools and colleges as soon as we can. But this needs to be safe for society, for children and their families and the staff who work in them.
We have these five tests which the Government should show will be met by reliable evidence, peer-reviewed science and transparent decision making.

Test 1: Much lower numbers of Covid-19 cases

The new case count must be much lower than it is now, with a sustained downward trend, with confidence that new cases are known and counted promptly. And the Government must have extensive arrangements for testing and contact tracing to keep it that way.

Test 2: A national plan for social distancing

The Government must have a national plan including parameters for both appropriate physical distancing and levels of social mixing in schools, as well as for appropriate PPE, which will be locally negotiated at school-by-school and local authority level.

Test 3: Testing, testing, testing!

Comprehensive access to regular testing for children and staff to ensure our schools and colleges don’t become hot spots for Covid-19.

Test 4: Whole school strategy

Protocols to be put in place to test a whole school or college when a case occurs and for isolation to be strictly followed.

Test 5: Protection for the vulnerable

Vulnerable staff, and staff who live with vulnerable people, must work from home, fulfilling their professional duties to the extent that is possible. Plans must specifically address the protection of vulnerable parents, grandparents and carers.

@Concerned7777

You intimated that not all children have free access to laptops. Does that mean that those who do should not benefit from full teaching?

My school has invested in chromebooks for all students in the last couple of years, and these are now paying back.

It also means that my online lessons are not that much different from the classroom ones. Classroom routines have not changed very much, apart from the lack of practical science.

I answered the question about supermarket workers

You wrongly said that supermarket staff have PPE. They don't. I don't know or see any supermarket staff wearing PPE.

I'm a retail worker and I know. We are all familiar with each other around the same streets

Why do teachers think they're above supermarket staff

I maybe over thinking this but if schools don’t go back then people can’t go back to work. If employees can’t go back to work wont that put them at risk for redundancy? Realistically, no commercial operation is gonna pay its works to do nothing. They’ll just restructure.

@Flaxmeadow

I went shopping today to M&S.
Every member of staff was wearing a visor and gloves. I don’t blame them either.
Also numbers in store were extremely restricted, with the queue monitored outside. A trolley was given to me when I reached the front of the queue and it had been cleaned.

I popped into Tesco at the weekend and checkout lady was wearing gloves. Squares and lines were clearly marked out on the floor, showing where I was able to stand. The queues at the tills were not allowed to build up near staff and customers were directed to the till, only when there was a large enough space to maintain social distancing.

I went to Homebase yesterday and they have big plastic screens fitted at the checkouts and huge bottles of sanitiser. Card payment only allowed. A one way route around the store, all very vigilantly monitored.

By contrast school will be a free for all. Children, excited to be with friends again, will not or simply cannot social distance. Hygiene is poor and difficult to monitor/ maintain.

Standards of safety and hygiene are much better currently in the supermarkets and I guess teaching staff would like the same sort of efforts made for them.

Vulnerable staff, and staff who live with vulnerable people, must work from home
This is a big issue that hopefully the unions will note. Many of the most vulnerable are not on the government's shielding list. Common conditions including several with the highest Covid mortality rates. Hypertension and diabetes for example.
Will they be protected? And parents, grandparents, and children (including older siblings) with these conditions.

What about BAME staff? It's disproportionately affecting their community. They're at increased risk.

Well done to the unions. Teaching. Transport. And all the others.
One of the reasons why unions were first formed. To fight for basic safe working environments.

@CraftyGin if your school are able to do that fabulous but I suspect your school is a minority in that respect not the majority.
@maddy68 dont even get me started on that cobblers comparing a supermarket to a school seriously!
A supermarket will have hundreds of different people going through it on a daily basis. In school they will be surrounded by the same 15 other pupils plus a member of staff or in worse case scenario if they keep to the same class sizes 30 other pupils plus 2/3 staff not in anyway shape or form a comparison of the 2 settings

@Flaxmeadow that's simply not true. Maybe the supermarkets in your area don't have staff wearing PPE, but in my area and it seems in other posters areas they do.

I'm happy to take a photo of you like tomorrow -
I need to do a weekly shop.

Why can’t people see the difference between society needs vs individual needs? We’ve become so fucking selfish that we cannot even contemplate that something that might be in the best interest of society might trump the individual need or right. It was not in the best interest of every 18 year conscript to fight in the war or for an individual nurse to work in ICU during COVID but it was/is better for society.

So yes it makes perfect sense that the govt says you can’t see your grandkids or more then 1 friend (not a society need) but can be asked to go back to work (a need for society) Every single contact with another person is a risk ..... we can reduce risk by social distancing, hygiene and every single one person less each person come into contact with lessens the risk BUT we need people to shop for food (or they will starve), provide essential services (or other people might starve/die/suffer extreme hardship etc) so we ask them to go to work. This massively reduced the amount of contacts AT A POPULATION LEVEL. But it’s bad for society ..... billions of pounds of debt caused by furlough is bad for society; children especially young children missing out in education is bad for society so we can’t just ignore this. Asking more people to go back to work and schools to reopen increases the ‘contact’ of the total population BUT the govt have balanced this against the ‘bad’ of catastrophic economic effect and education and welfare that school provide. You going to see your grandchild is not a societal need so in order to keep overall contact lower then ‘normal’ yes you can go to school/work, no you can’t see your mates or family. It’s really not that hard.
Children need to go to school ..... we are not child care. We educate, it’s important. If you don’t believe that then home school forever.
There is an increase risk, as school leaders we have to mitigate this as much as possible. The DfE guidance is that Shielding and vulnerable teachers should not go into school. If you remove that group of staff and obviously no over 70, teachers are more at risk of dying in a road accident on the way to work then from COVID.
Children need school, society needs children to be at school.,

@Noname99 I'm not sure why you are shouting but I'd argue that most, if not all posts from teachers are wanting to return to work?

Yes we need schools. Yes we need to educate our children. Yes we need teachers and other school staff back in the building.

We would just like it to be safer first.

I would have more sympathy if they had some positive suggestions or solutions to help everyone move forward. But they don’t

Rally, there are many, many teacher-bashing threads where teachers have clearly stated what they consider they need to be able to work safely. Convenient you haven’t read those posts, eh?

@noname well said couldn't put it any better 👏👏👏👏

@BertNErnie how can they make it any safer though? Teachers in hazmat suits? Is that the aim here?

@Howaboutanewname exactly. Posters seem to have a convenient way of ignoring the suggestions that have been offered as if they don't exist.

All the posters who feel so strongly about schools reopening without the safety measures the unions are asking for in place should collectively get together and offer their services to support more pupils coming back to schools ASAP. This could be a way forward as it would ensure schools are staffed by adults who are happy to take that risk.

@Concerned7777 opening a school back up to 900+ pupils in 5 or so weeks time whilst the daily death toll stands as it is is not safe.

Waiting until the death toll has fallen, we are sure the R rate hasn't gone up with the relaxation measures coming into play tomorrow and ensuring we have increased testing, tracking and tracing should support this. Ensuring schools have sufficient cleaners and cleaning regimes in place, increased hand washing and toilet facilities and having classes in smaller groups should also support this.

The government haven't met their 5 tests yet. Waiting until this has happened before planning to reopen schools at an increased capacity would also be a good idea.

You wrongly said that supermarket staff have PPE. They don't. I don't know or see any supermarket staff wearing PPE.I'm a retail worker and I know. We are all familiar with each other around the same streetsWhy do teachers think they're above supermarket staff

Well, there are masks, gloves and Perspex till covers in my local supermarket.

There is growing concern that infection will take place where ventilation is poor and people are caught in the same space as someone who is infectious. This will impact teachers massively. Supermarket workers are of course also likely to be affected, except spaces are bigger, some social distancing is taking place, some PPE is in place, adults don’t tend to lick other adults after having had their hands down their trousers for 20, minutes and people with the infection will come and then go. You won’t be with that infected person for hours at a time whilst they keep breathing out the virus. So teachers and supermarket workers alike will come into contact with the virus but it is the teachers who will cop for the heavier viral load which we know is causing more serious cases, hospitalisation and deaths.

Do many primary schools have 900+ pupils?
And didn't the Gov say it would only open schools if those 5 guidelines are met anyway?

Surely the idea of planning these things now means that went the 5 measures are met then there isn't a further delay to opening

The problem is to many parents see school as childcare or getting a break for a few hours. Even though they have been told that they will not be getting normal lessons they still want to send them back? .