Well that was clear as mud, so is meeting family allowed now or what??

[Crimples]

Not that it matters to me personally, being in Scotland but that was just the biggest load of waffley waffle.
Not even a mention of meeting other households.

The thing is, there was never going to be time for him to go through the 50 page document in his announcement. That's fair enough.

How on earth did it become so contradictory though?

I'm assuming now - but in the middle of a pandemic we shouldn't be trying to work out the rules - that when he said "You can sit in the sun in your local park, you can drive to other destinations, you can even play sports but only with members of your own household" what he actually meant was you can only play sport with your own household or socially distanced from other households.

I reckon the fines are going to be people playing large group football games or the likes where multiple people from multiple households are in contact.

What people think the rules are is going to depend on if they watched Boris or if they watched the news later.

Would anyone insisting last night’s statement clearly said mixed households couldn’t meet up like to comment on what Raab has just said?
No?
Thought not

The problem is @crimples he did clearly say households couldn't meet up. He said the fines would be bigger when he mentioned parks and sports.

The reporting directly after it was the confusion point because of what had been said to the journalists.

The bigger question surely is - how did the Prime Minister get it so wrong in a pre-recorded major public announcement?

I am reading it that if you meet an elderly parent in an OUTSIDE environment and you leave 2 m that is fine.

What isnt fine is driving for miles to visit a parent, stay for a few days, have dinner, be in very close proximity. If you have small children then definitely not as they probably couldnt resist hugs and kisses.

Its being outside that is the safety net, that and keeping 2 m away.

And no big family parties with lots of people in close proximity. I think some people were looking for Boris to speak about THEIR scenario and some werent listening at all and are then asking questions. The 50 page document will be key.

Of course you could make your own decision and do what you think is best and then take the consequences of those decisions. Someone last night was stating that as they being asked to go back to work then there was no way they WOULDNT be seeing their elderly parents. Do that if you wish but YOU will then be responsible for that decision.

None of this is fair of course. Its horrible. But this virus isnt fair!

I think some people were looking for Boris to speak about THEIR scenario and some werent listening at all and are then asking questions. The 50 page document will be key

I don't think that's the case on the family thing. Boris specifically said you could only be outside in the park with your on household, and his mention of increased fines enhanced that. The journalist briefing, and now Raab, has directly contradicted that.

It's not at all the fault of people watching that they found that guidance confusing. It's two totally different things.

@lyralalala exactly.
However I disagree that he clearly stated household mixing wasn’t allowed.
The message was (perhaps deliberately) vague.
The rules need to be crystal clear otherwise people will flaunt them.
Hopefully the press conference will be a bit less ambitious

ambiguous

The only thing that's clear is that this government is purposefully being vague, confusing and misleading to remove blame from themselves when the second wave hits.

@crimples We'll have to agree to disagree. He said "You can sit in the sun in your local park, you can drive to other destinations, you can even play sports but only with members of your own household" and then went on say that that there would be "increased fines for the small minority who do not comply". That's pretty clear

It was as soon as the summary of the news broadcasters started that it went tits up because they were summarising something totally different to what we'd heard.

Given that there's been an issue everytime there's been an announcement - Gove and the one hour myth, Gove again and the can they/can't they over kids going to the other parent, and now this - it's either deliberate or sheer incompetance.

The rules also need to be crystal clear because if you are going to start heavily fining people they need the chance to comply

As long as golf, professional football and Motor racing are back on 😂😂

Good point about the difficulty policing this. The Chief Constable of West Yorks has been quoted in the Yorkshire Evening Post basically saying we can’t enforce the law anymore it’s up to people to police themselves. What a shambles!

The policing could have been relatively simple.

Only allow people out in household groups.

Allow people to meet one on one 2M apart if from different households as was briefed to the journalists last night.

That way any groups of more than 5 or 6 could legitimately be asked "Do you all live in one household?" and dealt with if not.

If whole households can mix then policing it is impossible

Link to YEP article mentioned twitter.com/leedsnews/status/1259721197274742784?s=21

Sorry it was Police Constable Chairman not Chief Constable but point about confusion still stands.

West Yorks Police Federation Chairman

@Derbygerbil
"You’ve misheard the message over the past few weeks if you believe only key workers have been expected to go out to work. Plenty of non-key workers have had to if their industries are still able to operate (ie not leisure or non-essential retail etc). I imagine furlough will still have to continue for those staff who are shielding or have childcare responsibilities, but it will be open to all employees simply because a business chooses not to operate."

I haven't misheard the previous message. Most non-essential businesses have had to close. Shopping etc. and trips outdoors have been for essential things only. Many people have public facing roles that can't be done from home, which is why they have been off work for the last few weeks. Last night he said if you can't work from home you should be actively encouraged to go to work, but provided no clarity on WHO that covered. Hospitality/retail will have to wait, but what about all the other businesses that have been closed all this time? Actively encouraged? Or must stay closed... no mention of whether furlough scheme continuing.
Hopefully the other info today will provide more details.

However, the UK government put out a clarification saying people can only meet one person outside if you follow social distancing - not two people, such as both parents, at the same time.

So the original tweets and comments last night are the accurate ones.

You can meet one person from another household at 2M distance, but not two or more at a time.

I think that people on here are so desperate to hammer the government, that they are jumping into criticise without thinking about it all.

Boris Johnson is not responsible for this virus. The Chinese are. If you want lies condemn them. This virus was almost certainly about in China in November. Had they been honest then this situation would not have been so serious.

Has Johnson and the Government fucked up. Yes. However I have no doubts at all, that Corbyn and Abbott would have fucked up even more spectacularly.

There aren’t answers to this virus. We have got to learn to live with it. Until there is a vaccine or effective medical treatment, we are going to have to live alongside it. There are risks, just as a generation ago mothers worried themselves sick over whether their kids were going to come home with Polio.

This has always been about applying common sense, and making your own personal risk assessment.

Those of you who are worried sick about your children, and struggling with them, it’s understandable, but it’s a consequence of the choices you made to have them.

I chose not to have children. My personal risk assessment was that the risk of passing on my disabilities to them was too high.

The rabid and extreme responses on here to people has been an eye opener. The poor sod that was bullied because they bought a packet of hot cross buns, and people who have been called murderers because they have gone out more than once a day.

For me my daily life won’t change much. I will continue to take the dog out twice a day. I will continue to make irregular visits to friends, when it can be done outside, maintaining the two metre distance.

I will continue to walk round the park in the evening with another friend. It takes 15 minutes, and I have never bothered with the 2 metres. 1 metre has always been fine. If I hadn’t had that minimal contact with someone, being deaf I would have ended up with severe mental health difficulties.

I will continue to take responsibility for myself, and not expect the government to control every minutiae of my life.

Piss ups and Breweries spring to mind...

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Dominic Raab contradicts PM/No10 on two key points of guidance...

— Raab says you can meet both parents in park if socially distanced. No10 last night said you can only meet one person
— Raab says people should return to work Wednesday if they can’t work from home. PM said today

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Clarification from team Raab: people can sit in parks 2m away from one parent, not both at the same time — so No10 policy from last night stands

Lewis Goodall @lewis_goodall
Email from Cab Sec Mark Sedwill to all civil servants. Says that “the good news is lockdown has worked, all the data shows we are past the peak” and “from today-those who cannot world from home...are being encouraged to go to work.”

So not Wednesday as Raab suggested on Today...

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
Suggestions from one former SpAd: "Do statement Monday not Sunday. Publish docs online as soon as PM finishes statement. No ministers on broadcast before docs online. No background briefings for Lobby before PM statement and docs online. Briefing after to clear up any issues."

If only we had rocket scientists leading this country...

Obviously the new changes are SOOOOO CLEAR that the Acting PM doesn't understand them. And he's supposedly one of the people who wrote the damn things.

Facepalm

I think that people on here are so desperate to hammer the government, that they are jumping into criticise without thinking about it all.

Since 7pm last night we haven't been allowed to meet anyone else in the park, allowed to meet a whole other household at 2M and now meet one-to-one at 2M.

That's not jumping on the government for no reason.

Whilst announcing that we can't meet anyone from any other households Boris also said that fines for people breaking rules will be higher. For them to then give two different versions of that rule within 12 hours is staggering incompetance and deserving of being jumped on.

It's a pandemic. People need clear legistlation and clear guidance.

However I have no doubts at all, that Corbyn and Abbott would have fucked up even more spectacularly. To be fair we had two shit candidates for PM. In all likelihood Corbyn would have been a fuck up too - but that doesn't make me feel any better about Boris.

It's a total shambles.

Boris saying one very vague thing. Raab totally contradicting him.

So I can drive anywhere in England and spend the day in a park or beach so long as I stay 2m from other groups of randomers in that space. But if the people who are 2m from me are people I know, there can only be one of them? Bonkers.

However I have no doubts at all, that Corbyn and Abbott would have fucked up even more spectacularly.

I don't give a fuck about the strawman argument about how another theorectical imaginery government would be worse.

I don't care what colour this government is.

I just want one which is competent enough to understand that releasing the guidance immediately after the PM speech could have stopped a huge amount of the confusion today and I'd like a Deputy PM who supposedly helped to write the guidance to understand the guidance and not be issuing corrections.

I'm not being overly critical in making a point that this is a car crash and that people criticising imaginery governments instead of being honest about how this car crash is about a very basic level of communication, rather than even the policy itself really need to have a serious think.

I'm not being overly critical in making a point that this is a car crash and that people criticising imaginery governments instead of being honest about how this car crash is about a very basic level of communication, rather than even the policy itself really need to have a serious think.

Yes! Well said.

Thoughts on Teresa May, if they had been leaders the other way round with Boris getting the chance first I wonder if she would actually have done a pretty good job with this?