So basically the government are removing themselves?

[princesstwinkle]

So Boris has just tweeted what I presume is going to be announced later. To me it is the government removing the responsibility from themselves so that they can blame to public when a second wave occurs. All very vague and unhelpful!

we obviously won't agree but lots of parents even in MN have said that they wouldn't feel comfortable leaving their year 9 children at the moment.

If they don't feel comfortable they can give up their jobs as presumably they don't need them anyway if they're happy for workplaces to stay shut and potentially go out of business.

And it still stands that 12 hours notice simply is not enough time.

I think they said that workplaces would have to be safe so I doubt that will happen in the next 12 hours anyway.

I don’t really get the confusion on here? Nothing has changed that much, just that some workplaces will reopen unless people can wfh. I don’t know what % of the population if office based but a large majority of those can wfh surely?

I didn’t hear anything about going out and having a big extended family gathering (or even a small one). You can go out and stay out but socially distance as now. The one hour thing was never law, more guidance. I didn’t adhere to it but haven’t been in contact with anyone but my household.

Schools are going back in a limited form if the numbers keep reducing and that’s good news IMO.

I think they need to be blunt and say the vaccine isn’t coming anytime soon, so unless you want the economy completely destroyed, we need to start reopening.

Why can’t people use their common sense in all this?

@BreakingGlassCeilings - completely agree on your post!

This also made me chuckle 😉

@BreakingGlassCeilings completely agree. The way out of this mess is to stop the virus spreading. How do we stop that? We stop they by 65% of people being immune to it. What’s that? Ah yes herd immunity. How do we get it? We get it either by a vaccine or by catching it and recovering. Ah but there is no vaccine. Ah yes you are right. So we either lock down until there is. And kill more people through poverty. Or we enable 65% of people to catch it. Yes but we need to do that sloooowly so we don’t overwhelm the NHS. Correct.

@bool indeed. Whilst other countries are working towards elimination. Go figure.....! We may be open for business in the UK. But watch as we become global pariahs.

Re turning taps on and off.

I very much hope they don’t turn my Y10 child’s education on and off prior to expecting her to sit exams.

@Daffodil101 that's exactly what I think we should expect them to mean - that until a vaccine is found, they will be turning the taps on and off. Because they didn't lock down early enough for track and trace - so the economy is opening up too soon.

@mildlymiffed Indeed. Watch as we become media obsessed populist armchair scientist Piers Morgan pariahs

Why are we global pariahs? Look at the protests in Germany.

Look at the US states lifting restrictions.

Breaking “I think they need to be blunt and say the vaccine isn’t coming anytime soon, so unless you want the economy completely destroyed, we need to start reopening.”

I would much prefer this.

@ShallallalAa what would an earlier lockdown have achieved?

@LilacTree1 ufff me too. But I think people still believe we can somehow stop this without a vaccine and lockdown is the answer.

I think the penny will drop soon.

Clang

Bool sadly I think we’ve a good few months before the penny drops. People are mad, and, as you’ve possibly seen from my other threads, apparently unaware of infectious disease and the fact that those of us who are vulnerable to them mostly just get on with our lives.

@lilactree1 I think the government are playing this cleverly in the sense they no longer talk about herd immunity. But it is nature’s end game. Either through vaccine or catching it and recovering. They are easing us slowly to that realisation. I realised it back in February and had 3 days of near breakdown. We are in a pandemic. There is no good or best or better or elimination. We need to get in with our lives and protect our most vulnerable. I did a euphoric thread on this in March when I realised and got shouted at.

Bool oh I didn’t see it

I wanted herd immunity all along

Have been shouted at a lot on here

I just wish the government would bloody hurry up if that’s the message

So much personal devastation due to lockdown.

I’m off to bed, good night. Tomorrow is another day closer to end of lockdown!

@LilacTree1 ah well. It’s not a case of wanting herd immunity or not wanting it. Whether you want it or not it will happen. Either through a vaccine (as we have with measles) or through is catching it (as with Spanish flu. So we either lock down until a vaccine. The cure worse than the disease. Or we have to let it slowly work through the population until 65% have caught it. Personally I don’t want the vulnerable in that 65% so I would have kept schools and teachers in class. Let it spread there.

Ps that was the strategy until people screamed for the schools to close. My two (healthy) were there until the very last moment and will be first in queue when they re-open. We have all had it anyway. Mildly. (My DH had it seriously. But that is another story)

I always thought herd immunity was the only way out. Then there was lots of positive news re vaccine and cures.

Then I watched Victoria Derbyshire interview 2 scientists/virologists the other week and both said that they were very doubtful a vaccine or cure would be found. Was a 'don't lose all hope, it may happen but very doubtful in the next couple of years'.

So. It leaves us with flattening that bloody curve and keeping it at managed levels. That's what the nightingale hospitals are for. Once there is enough PPE they will open properly for covid patients. The NHS will open up for normal business, we will have track and trace to try and manage outbreaks, everyone else carries on as normal, probably from September.

The world can't stop because some people will die. Not when it is the demographics of the elderly and the infirm who are mostly dying while you have a health service that can cope with the younger and fitter patients.

It will decimate nursing homes. And domicilary care. But they are the ones who would likely die 'within 26 months' usually anyway. That's the average life expectancy of someone who enters a care home. So the government doesn't really mind that.

It's an awful disease. But realistically the world can't stop because even absolute worse case scenario half a million deaths from CV in the UK isn't as bad as what would happen in a deep recession.

The UK government can't ignore that. Atm every country is being judged on CV statistics. But next year and the year after it will be countries being judged on who is starving to death.

It's also going to be interesting watching Scotlands response in comparison to England's response. Nicola sturgeon wants to be more cautious. That's fine but I hope she doesn't expect more in the way of financial support than what is available to England, Wales and NI.

@Bool yep

@frouby a vaccine is simply another way of gaining herd immunity. You either get herd immunity by vaccinating enough people (as we have with, say, measles) OR by enough people catching it and recovering (as happened with Spanish flu). So herd immunity is the outcome in any scenario.

@bool yes of course you are right but I meant herd immunity via catching it rather than vaccinate against it.

@BreakingGlassCeilings your final sentence said it all.

He didn’t say all get up and go to work today, the only difference in the guidance about work was about public transport, the rest is the same as it was before .

Personally I would have preferred to keep the excel use rules in place because well ; your final sentence