So outbreaks are only in care homes and hospitals. What am I missing?

[mayoral]

In the governments press conference yesterday they said infection rates remain high because of outbreaks in two places: care homes and hospitals. They said transmission within the community was small and well below R1.

So why can't we contain care homes and hospitals and get on with our lives now??

oh and mental health wards, must be terrible

All you are missing is the obvious, it's highly infectious.

My mum's are home has somewhere to put staff because a third of the residents in her unit of 24 have died. I wouldn't ask them to do this though. They are working above and beyond the call of duty as it is.

Well, I've seen some breathtaking stupidity on MN these past few weeks but this thread ....

OP some care homes are, and some hospitals, as said, offered hotels to staff but this is not a State system like in China.
we have our freedom of choice.

Sorry you’ve had enough of staying home @mayoral
Working in a carehome, there’s days I wish I could!

Yep, just leave us to it, open up everything and forget what’s happening in carehomes.
Don’t give us a second thought while your sitting sipping on your latte in the Costa that’s just opened!
Those pesky elderly residents getting in the way of a lockdown ending!

For forbid you or your family ever need us!

I think posters are being unfair to the OP. All she suggested was that instead of everyone being locked down which would continue to trash the economy, resulting in death to many over a very prolonged period through poverty and/or lack of any funding for the NHS, only care homes should be locked down. Yes it's very tough on those who work there for little money and probably will be rejected for that reason, but it probably would result in the greatest good for the greatest number of people, if indeed it were true that care homes are fuelling the R rate.
Personally I think it's down to more than what's happening in the care homes though.

@mayoral if you are dead there is no economy.

Also this government were the ones who didn't take it seriously and act in time. As well as the things PPs have mentioned they could have stopped the Liverpool v Real Madrid match, and other large mass events. Listening to some of the PH officials it seems they don't understand how people socialise together before and after such events.

Myfriendanxiety Fri 08-May-20 08:14:28
@fascinated you would be locking down far too many people with this approach.

^^

But right now EVERYONE is locked down? It be fewer than now, surely?

@mayoral

I don’t know what’s happened to yours critical reasoning skills since you got your masters, but your suggestion would get short shrift even in GCSE Economics essay!

You’re right, we do need to open up the economy, and it is having a massive and damaging impact.... we’ll get the economy back through reducing cases to the point where we can effectively track and trace to isolate cases and those exposed early, and by protecting hospital and care home environments as much as possible through effective PPE. There is a way out, but it requires patience and not latching onto to simplistic and unworkable ideas.

All the hotels in the country are empty, can't care home staff and hospital staff be housed there as an option?

I take it their children should be put into boarding school in the meantime, irrespective of age?

Community cases are low because of lockdown. Surely it's not rocket science to understand that if lockdown was lifted, community cases would rise?

Mayoral. Calm down a bit. Everyone is worried about the economy but we are where we are. The care homes will burn out eventually and Boris is announcing changes soon anyway for the rest of us. People are starting to work again. 2 tradesmen I need are now willing to come out to quote in the next month when last month they flatly refused. They have put safety measures in place. And before I get shouted at it's for a self contained annex so we will have zero face to face contact.

And for the record I offered to go on unpaid leave but wasn't allowed. I dont want the furlough bill either!

yes, my piece of paper that says I have a masters in economics

Which makes it inexplicable that you haven't worked out how improbable it is that the figures are exaggerated by care home infections, given the tiny proportion of the population that staff and residents of care homes represent.

*What about people who need hospital treatment or appointments e.g. pregnant women, cancer patients. Will they all be locked up with everyone else in the hospital? What if you break your leg? Once you’re in hospital will you have to stay there.”

Exactly. Another reason why it’s not so easy to simply contain hospitals why we all get back to normal.

@mayoral a masters in economics eh? And you still can’t work out what your missing?

I’m not furloughed so your crass comments don’t apply to me, but your degree does not qualify you to treat others with such disdain.

I take it their children should be put into boarding school in the meantime, irrespective of age?

I assumed @mayoral would be fostering some of them. It’s only fair surely. She’s asking people to be incarcerated- the least she can do is look after their children.

It is v difficult, I know. Just trying to brainstorm.

People need to stop jumping on people who try and discuss this and make suggestions. We won’t get anywhere as a country if we don’t have honest conversations.

Having said that, I’m disappointed in the OP’s comment about the taxpayer funded tit. It’s crude, mysognist and ridiculous , given that we know nothing about posters’ individual circumstances.

It’s a stressful situation, this, lord knows I’m hating it, but unless we have proper conversations with each other without immediately slinging insults, calling each other I’ll informed or selfish or turning it into a left v right thing we will get absolutely nowhere.

Sorry Thread moved on. Ok, I see your point about too many.

Mayoral, a couple of questions for your MSc in economics.

1. I'm sure you understand the concept of exponential growth and that one case in a population that is doing nothing to stop the spread will lead to millions of infections (well, the pandemic started from one case, so I guess that's obviously even if you don't have a numerate masters). I'm sure you also understand that you can't lock up a section of the population and tell them they have to work with dying people every day, face huge risk themselves and not see their family for 18 months and then expect full compliance. So a resurgence would be inevitable. My economics question is, faced with a disease that could see millions off work at once, what is your alternative solution for the economy. What are we missing?

1. Following your really unpleasant, misogynist comment about furlough, I'm wondering about the difference between masters and BSc economics. Because everything I was taught about macro economics would support the use of furlough to keep the economy running. Being on furlough means jobs still there, people still spending and creating demand, companies in a position to restart. Mass unemployment, mortgage repossession etc doesn't seem a great economic plan to me. What am I missing?

yes, my piece of paper that says I have a masters in economics

And an OP that says you lack common sense and basic humanity.

OP, top tip. Mentioning higher education qualifications in debate is usually not helpful.

It's a contagious virus everything we are doing is to slow it down , it's not going to just disappear that's not what lockdown will do
Cate homes and hospital settings and many institutions will always spread something quicker as people large amounts of people in one area
Often in a normal household something will spread to the whole family as you lived confined with each other
But can't lock all people who work away , plus although majority of infections may be in these places there will still be some community cases so we have to follow guidelines to slow it down

One care home had the staff sleeping in tents in the garden. Some seemed quite resolute to the idea that no germ was getting in and others seemed slow to realise the shit storm that was going to hit. But seeing as our government also didn't realise and act appropriately then can you blame them?