So outbreaks are only in care homes and hospitals. What am I missing?

[mayoral]

In the governments press conference yesterday they said infection rates remain high because of outbreaks in two places: care homes and hospitals. They said transmission within the community was small and well below R1.

So why can't we contain care homes and hospitals and get on with our lives now??

@EricaNernie my DH is NHS and was offered this. We declined. He couldn’t be away from his children for months on end, it would be fair on him on them.

Fuck sake. So there's NOTHING we can do to contain the outbreaks? Nothing? Just mock me? And lockdown the entire country instead. Well done everyone 👏🏼

We could have if everyone had bloody listened to the guidelines from the beginning. The severity of this outbreak is mostly due to selfishness.

@mayoral you don’t need to thank mumsnet for mockIng you as you’re quite capable of ridiculing yourself 👏🏼

Have you found what your missing yet?

Fuck sake. So there's NOTHING we can do to contain the outbreaks? Nothing? Just mock me? And lockdown the entire country instead. Well done everyone

People are trying to control the outbreak and ease restrictions country wide as soon as possible. Many things are being done, some need to be happening faster, PPE, testing etc. Of course it isn't your 'plan' or nothing.

OP
You mean like prison? Imprison all staff and patients/care home residents? Great idea........

@fascinated you would be locking down far too many people with this approach.

@mayoral

You wouldn’t be being mocked if you had any answers that were remotely workable. Yes, it’s shit... but part of growing up is normally realising life’s a bitch sometimes and there aren’t easy solutions to every problem. It sounds like you need to learn that lesson and stop acting with the world-awareness of a six year old.

if we are getting on with our lives if it is 'only' hospitals and care homes that are shut down, the ridiculousness of this plan aside, that means your perfect solution hotels won't be lying idle any more OP...

A local hotel sent all their staff home and the manager is doing all the work. Normally they are full of tourists at this time of year instead he offered it to any NHS or care home staff to stay it to protect their families. So some hotels are doing that OP but as others have stated not all staff can or want to leave their own families. It is unreasonable to ask them and what would the single parents do?

The lock down is containing outbreaks if people obey it. Our local police have been fining and turning people away who have travelled from other counties for the weekend. One family had travelled 300 miles!

there are still approx 10000 people arriving in the uk every day without screening, or quarantining. that is having far more of an impact than this so called 'selfishness'

Don’t take this the wrong way not goady genuine question can health workers tell us how exactly does the infection spread?
I want to be more informed about what’s genuinely going wrong in those different settings from the horses mouth?

The infection is spread by droplets.

Health and social care by definition involves close proximity between people, so there is exposure to the virus if either the carer or the patient/resident is incubating or asymptomatically infected.

Complete abandonment of the track, trace and isolate programme means we have no idea who is infected and who isn’t.

Exposure can be minimised by the non-infected person wearing PPE and the infected person wearing a mask.

Ideally hospital and care settings would assume that everyone needs to be protected from everyone else (social distancing makes this assumption, but is unimplementable in a care setting) but this hasn’t happened fully

b) PPE is difficult to wear and doff 100% safely, even for people who are used to It
c) the PPE guidance in this country falls short of the WHO guidance
d) there simply isn’t enough PPE

Also hospitals receive new Covid-19 patients all the time; until recently it was the same for care homes who were forced to accept infected or potentially infected residents back from the hospital setting. This too increases the risk of exposure.

So all in all it’s a mess. The only way to get out of it is to know where the virus is, and the only way to do that is test, trace and isolate. But we’re way behind on that.

The lockdown is containing infection reasonably well. We just need to be patient and carry on with it. This is an issue we all need to solve, not to foist onto NHS staff and care workers so we can go out and get out roots done.

Popcorn and a large diet coke please.

@walkingchuckydoll I don’t think the biggest issue was people not listening to guidelines- it was that guidelines were imposed too late once everyone had already been infected 2 weeks previously.

It’s not Joe Bloggs ignoring lockdown and visiting his girlfriend Mary that are causing the majority of the cases. It’s piss poor government management of a situation that we had weeks more time to plan for that other countries who seem to have managed better.

The biggest issues were government caused I’m afraid, not people ignoring them.
They locked down too late
They allowed big groups to meet at gigs and races when they knew there was a highly contagious virus spreading
They didn’t get PPE sorted quickly enough to places that really needed it
They sent positive care home residents back to care homes to spread the virus to other vulnerable people. Who then spread it to the care workers, who then take it home to their families.
The didn’t implement testing in the really early days when we had a few hundred cases which could have stopped the virus in its tracks
They allowed and are still allowing planes full of people to land without an enforced isolation afterwards.

People need managing. You can’t put the heath of an entire country in the hands of individual people- society needed stronger and clearer rules.

mayoral you don't need a masters in economics to know that lockdown has an impact on people but what you are suggesting is completely and utterly unworkable.

So, say your suggestion is implemented and all NHS / Care home workers (and their families if they chose to maintain contact) have to self isolate indefinitely. How do we compensate them for their loss of human rights? How do we compensate their children for their loss of the right to a family life or to an education if they keep their parents but can't go to school as a result?

What are you going to do with the hotel staff ? Do they also have to stay away from their families?

It doesn't take a masters degree to see that your suggestion could not possibly work......

ilovebagpuss Thank you for taking the time to describe the coughing man situation, unless every human being within his area had full ppe on at all times you’re screwed aren’t you, That must be so difficult for you all to handle mentally when you’re all aware of the effect of what he’s doing

I’m interested if you were made responsible to fix the situation in care homes do you think the answer is pay a good wage and have good access to ppe or is there more to do

Did you actually say 'keep sucking on that tax-payer funded furlough tit'

I am going to gag, seriously. That comment is going to stay with me for a very long time.

Yes well done everyone! WELL DONE! All of us selfish bastard health and social care workers who have been struggling through this nightmare for weeks should be ashamed of ourselves! It’s all our fault and we are the reason @mayoral can’t go back to normal.

@fascinated

It’s an interesting suggestion, and maybe treating hospital and care workers as shielded for the purposes of food deliveries might help. The problem arises is how that ring around them extends. If it extends to their children, it also extends to their teachers (as you point out) but then it also extends to the teachers’ partners and children, who themselves would need to be in this ring... and before you know it, half the country’s inside.

*I don’t think the biggest issue was people not listening to guidelines- it was that guidelines were imposed too late once everyone had already been infected 2 weeks previously.
*
The WHO was quite clear from the beginning that this was a big problem. People and companys chose to not listen but wait for the government. Because apparantly the UK is so much wiser than the WHO.

is there a problem in prisons? or do we not care enough to be told?

What about people who need hospital treatment or appointments e.g. pregnant women, cancer patients. Will they all be locked up with everyone else in the hospital? What if you break your leg? Once you’re in hospital will you have to stay there?

The staff who work at the care homes/hospital - we’re going to ask them to stay in a hotel for the next 6 months are we and not see any family?

Yes someone is still worried about taxes rising in a country that didn't have enough PPE , ventilators, critical care nurses, because of cost cutting to keep taxes down

In a country that has messed things up because they were so focussed on short term economy, and so scared of the problems of lockdown that they left it too late, caused more deaths and a longer lockdown

You get what you pay for

Care work is one of the shittiest, poorly treated, poorly paid jobs going (I’ve had to do it for years). Like fuck would I move into work to be treated even more appallingly by my employers for less than £9 per hour.

The reason it’s so rife in care homes is that many workers who are sick can not afford to take time off on SSP. Many are already living in poverty on those shitty wages. Managers pressure workers to come in while sick anyway - the amount of D&V bugs I’ve seen in my time sweep through vulnerable residents because it’s assumed staff are lying when they say they are sick and are pressured to come in or staff can’t afford to take time off is abysmal.

I lost my home in December and had to move across the county because I was working in a care home, got pneumonia (and was still pressured to work with it), went on SSP and couldn’t afford my rent as I was too sick for too long. That’s the reality.