Today I feel incredibly angry

[awaywiththecircus]

I’m feeling incredibly selfish. My family luckily are all fit and well. If we catch CV we will in all likelihood be I’ll for a few days at worst. I see the impact this is having on us and feel incredibly angry. My dc should be at school, socialising, having fun. DH and I should be at work keeping a stable roof over our heads. But obviously it’s all gone to shit.
And all the fit people who are insisting they are going to stay locked up at home until there’s a vaccinationFFS.
Even my close friend with a shielded dc is feeling that we have massively overacted to this when weighing up the collateral damage we are causing. I know I’ll get flamed but I’m truly at the end of my tether.

Another fortnight to three weeks things will be easing up. The Gov need this time to get their fingers out of their arses and get ready for contact tracing etc. People need to hold their nerve till then.

This is a nasty illness for a lot of people in their thirties and forties. The ones I know who have had it didn't die but they felt ill enough to fear that they might. It was extremely painful and frightening and they didn't even get a test so they are not counted in any official stats. The follow up fatigue lasted weeks. All fit, healthy people with no underlying conditions. None of them thought it was anything to worry about before they got it, now they are telling EVERYONE to avoid it at all costs. Another couple of weeks we might have it at a level where we can prevent the spread more effectively.

I am not pro or anti lockdown in itself. It's a means to an end, getting R and case numbers down enough to start to reopen.

Not reopening at all unless or until a vaccine would I think be disastrous for health and the economy. Opening up with
R going above one...the same, disastrous.

So I could be completely wrong but I see lockdown as a tool and how/when it is used defines whether it is helpful or not.

Agree with you OP.

June. Phased from there. My thinking is that another 3 weeks away anyway. Furlough ends in July and people need to work for a living

It looks as though that's probably what's going to happen.

There's a very very big problem to solve with how schools open safely though. It's not at all certain yet that children won't spread (as opposed to be very ill with) the virus as much as anyone else. If the infection does spread quietly amongst barely symptomatic pupils, then infected staff or families are going to need to be identified and isolated very quickly. If that can happen, then we could be fine. If not, we'll be right back at exponentially rising infections and sickness in the wider community and all the problems that will cause, perhaps more lockdowns. I can see why people are worried that we're just not quite ready yet to open schools because we don't yet know how it will all work. Perhaps new infrastructure ideas and testing regimes for schools are getting worked on behind the scenes like the Nightingale hospitals?

I am not pro or anti lockdown in itself. It's a means to an end, getting R and case numbers down enough to start to reopen.

Not reopening at all unless or until a vaccine would I think be disastrous for health and the economy. Opening up with R going above one...the same, disastrous.

So I could be completely wrong but I see lockdown as a tool and how/when it is used defines whether it is helpful or not.

I agree.

@2beautifulbabs no I'm a crap paid worker where my already crap pay has gone down A LOT due to the virus. AND I'm desperate to get my kids back to school but believe it's not quite the right time yet, due to the reasons I stated earlier.

How would you describe a set of people happy to let the elderly and weak die?

Human.

I'll say it again, for those at the back.

We have been doing this for years. No it's not nice. Yes it's awful. But people just do not throw their lives, jobs, homes, and mental health, down the toilet to help with ebola or malaria, or to provide clean water, or to make sure girls get an education, or any of the other 1000 cruel and horrible things that come with being human.

Why? Why don't we do that Why are people expecting anything other than normal levels of selfish human behaviour?

The truth of the matter is people complied so well because they were scared for themselves and loved ones, and the ones that weren't thought "well if everyone else is doing it, I'm a law abiding citizen so probably should give it my best shot"

People have given it their best shot. How much longer do we need to do it? Oh yeah, nobody knows.

@awaywiththecircus completely 100% agree with you. The young and healthy, children and the economy are being thrown under the bus.
My husband has his own business that he has grafted to build over 7 years. I’m talking 80 hour weeks, 1 day of paternity leave, taking calls on holiday constantly. We had not a penny of business debt before this and employed 60 people, all on decent wages (way above minimum) with training opportunities etc - all in all a good employer. We have a decent lifestyle (we aren’t loaded though, by any stretch - no private schools etc) and what’s really fucking me off is all the Guardian readers with their public sector salaries thinking it’s ok that the economy is completely screwed and business like my husbands will in all likelihood not survive because “people are dying” and “the rich will be fine”. I’m sure the super rich will be fine, it’ll be everyday people who’ve worked really bloody hard from scratch who won’t be. Yes people are dying, we are unfortunately in a pandemic, however people die every day sadly. By continuing this lockdown for the economically active and healthy we are condemning ourselves and our children to a very bleak future. Under 350 people under aged 45 have died of this. Perspective is required now.
My DH is usually very positive and forward thinking but honestly there was one day just before the full lockdown when I was scared to leave the house as I didn’t know what I would find when I returned ☹️.

• This is exactly the sort of hysteria that has got us to this place. Care homes are mainly for people at the end of their life. The end! It’s not about throwing them under a bus, but a common cold might kill them, slipping in a shower might kill them, a bout of food poisoning might kill them. They are at huge risk of dying of a Multitude of things because they are end of life*

^ this ...

My dad died last year - he was 92, very frail, had been bed bound in a care home for the previous year. He was profoundly deaf, doubly incontinent, severely depressed and confused. The cause of his death was aspiration pneumonia - he aspirated a tiny bit of bread one lunchtime and 3 days later he was dead - but it could have been any one of a number of things because his body was shutting down. He was furious at the time at what he saw as a waste of resources keeping him alive and would be horrified at the calls for extended lockdown in order to protect him and people like him.

This is a nasty illness for a lot of people in their thirties and forties. The ones I know who have had it didn't die but they felt ill enough to fear that they might. It was extremely painful and frightening and they didn't even get a test so they are not counted in any official stats. The follow up fatigue lasted weeks. All fit, healthy people with no underlying conditions. None of them thought it was anything to worry about before they got it, now they are telling EVERYONE to avoid it at all costs. Another couple of weeks we might have it at a level where we can prevent the spread more effectively.

Sorry but so is the flu.

I had flu once and "thought I might die" is probably an accurate way to describe it. Couldn't imagine leaving my bed the mattress caught fire. Except I knew deep down I probably wasn't going to die because people in their 20s very rarely die of the flu.

I was also in a car crash and didn't feel half as bad as I did with the flu, but still spent a lot of time thinking I would die because, well, people die of RTAs, don't they?

Illness is often really horrible. Nobody wants to get ill. But the truth of the matter is that if this was advertised as a 0.000001% chance of death, I bet those people wouldn't have thought they were going to die. They'd have thought gee that really wiped me out, just like people often do with the flu.

And since you put so much weight into anecdotal evidence a friend of my mum's family had it. Husband late 40s, overweight and bad diet in bed for two days. Wife asymptomatic and both kids had the "rona rash" and were tired / out of sorts, but otherwise fine.

Sorry but so is the flu.

And if we had a new flu with a similar illness/hospitalisation rate to this coronavirus, we'd be worried about it spreading unchecked in the community too.

blockky I hope I get their version of it 😁 I could live with that!

Joking aside it's the unpredictability that is frustrating. Hopefully they will keep running the data and keep isolating the factors that make you more likely to get it badly. And when I say they felt like they were dying it was the breathing issues that were most frightening, lasting several days. If we move to a phase where people are given oxygen support earlier it might be a way of minimising this symptom and generally make it less terrifying for people.

This morning I took my kids to the taped off play park and let them play while I sat at a table and got an hour of work done on the ipad. because you're more important than other people. We get it. Your feelings are more acute and your suffering is greater.

@Pasghetti lets have worldwide devastation to avoid a nasty illness for a lot of people in their thirties and forties
Flu can be nasty, and take a while to recover from as can being run over or falling off your bike. As I said before I'd rather get back to normal and take my chances thanks.

because you're more important than other people. We get it. Your feelings are more acute and your suffering is greater.

Am I more important to you, than you? Than your family? No? Exactly.

I'm not stopping anyone else from going. As I said, a dad turned up with two kids too.

And we had a great time. I recommend it.

It’s not, on the whole, nasty illness for people in their 30s and 40s - it is this sort of thinking that has people cowering in their houses. My DH had it (38) - two days of nasty cough/temp, bed rest followed by another few days of tiredness. I possibly had it - that was 1 day of sore throat and headache. I know at least 15 other people in this age group who have probably had it. All are now fine. Some people - the men especially - struggled more than others but I don’t think one was especially worried. A lot of the young people who have had it bad are obese. I know it’s not PC to say it but they are.

Good for you @blockyy It's a fucking disgrace they have closed public parks in the first place.

You put no-one at risk. The absolute hysteria when you are out is just unbelievable.

@awaywiththecircus you know we are close to having some restrictions lifted. Hopefully a few more weeks will make the difference between the next stage being manageable versus crazy second peak that requires another full lockdown. Lockdown has cost us as a family a lot financially and emotionally but I would rather grit my teeth for another few weeks if it buys time for the Gov to watch other countries and figure out the next steps. A second full lockdown would be far more harmful than 2-3 more weeks of pain now. I will do what I have to do now if it helps avoid more pain down the line.

I’m aware of the risks and would be more than happy to take my chances .

You clearly fucking aren't. Korea (the country with the absolute best handle on this) is reporting that 37% of mild cases take at least a month to recover. As a formerly extremely fit and healthy person who is now into week 8 of my 'mild' illness and having a lie down to recover from walking twice around the block because spending most of my day in bed is the only way I can, hopefully, avoid relapse after even that level of "exercise." And I'm only risking those walks because my heart rate is finally back to normal after over a month of terrifying spikes.

This illness is not what most people think it is. It's fucking shit in the extreme for huge amounts of people who would be expected to have shrugged it off. My main feeling though, is utter, utter relief that I didn't infect anybody more vulnerable. I know just how very hard it was for me to breathe through the worst of it, and the stress my heart was put under. I can very easily understand how badly it can effect people whose heart and lungs aren't as healthy. Be less fucking selfish.

blockyy

How would you describe a set of people happy to let the elderly and weak die?

Human.

Inhumane - fixed that for you.

What's the point in civilisation if we don't protect the weakest among us?

Some here seem to think Logan's Run is a way to exist.

This is sounding like a possible way forward (it doesn’t necessarily go as far as I’d like but at least there’s some recognition not everyone needs to stay home indefinitely...)

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/05/longer-lockdown-for-over-70s-would-allow-fewer-restrictions-for-rest-of-uk-scientists-suggest

Economic damage on this scale would have happened without the lock down. The organisation I'm with ran an event in mid-march, before the lockdown - we already had people backing out. The week before lockdown was announced we were decoding what to do over the summer, whether we'd refund people if they backed down over health fears, whether to cancel and in that case would we cover the fees of the performers. If we hadn't had lockdown, the economy would have fallen off a cliff anyway - key people off work, others keeping away from any crowded event or place, unrest as workers agitated for proper protection. And those people currently furloughed and struggling with a reduction of income would have found themselves on SSP or UC.

Chippity none of the people I know who had it were obese. That's why it's frustrating - it's just bloody unpredictable. But I actually find your post encouraging. I'm hoping that if they roll out antibody testing a lot of us will find we had it without noticing! I know some of my colleagues were skiing in northern Italy and my family all had a bad cough and general malaise in late Feb so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that was our brush with Covid

@alittleprivacy There's a piece on the BBC news app today about people whose symptoms have been persistent. I'm sorry you have been so ill. It's such a weird shitty illness and seems so random.

OP you might be happy to take your chances it I am not. I want to live and I want my children and relatives to live. I don't want to gamble with our lives. Staying inside is not really that much of a hardship. We aren't living in a war zone o going out on a battlefield we are just staying at home.