It MIGHT have been here before Feb/March

[Whattodowhattodooo]

Just seen this tweet.

**A French Doctor has claimed that the virus was in France in December, a month before the first confirmed case.

Dr Cohen tested old blood samples for patients with respiratory symptoms and found a positive result.

This is worth investigating - it could be significant. - Prof Karol Sikora

Whilst it's France and not UK, I think the possibility should be investigated over here too. I am 99% sure my Dad had it beginning of January.

It seems everyone has a story like this one. A friend of mine flew to Italy, Spain and Greece in January and had a really nasty cough/chesty virus. In March we were joking that maybe he'd already had coronavirus but now I wonder if maybe he actually had. Maybe he's a super spreader?!

Is it not virtually impossible that so many people have had it around christmas though? The excess deaths didnt begin until march and im sure increased hospital and uci admissions across europe would have been noticed? Havent we just had a mild flu season as well? So its not like cases have been lost amongst flu patients. Im sure there was small amounts of cases like the man in france but i find it impossible that it was so widespread as everyone claims

I should think the suprisingly high early infection rate among MNers will be a mixture of it being around earlier than originally thought, and some other ailments going round.

I guess the possibility people had CV earlier on in the year would be more convincing if it had spread rapidly to family members because of its infectivity

And surely there would have been unexpected hospitalisations and deaths of health care workers which would have caused alarm. I think alot of people who think an antibody test will prove they had it in december are going to be disappointed

If you think corona virus feels like flu then you haven't had corona virus. It's like nothing I've ever experienced

Even though it's asymptomatic or mild (i.e. far better than influenza) in the vast majority of cases?

Even though it's asymptomatic or mild (i.e. far better than influenza) in the vast majority of cases?

Flu is asymptomatic in around 77% of cases apparently, so no Covid is not “far better than influenza”, especially when you consider “mild” when used medically with reference to Covid means “not serious enough to be hospitalised”.

www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practice/three-quarters-of-people-with-flu-have-no-symptoms/

I am partially convinced that I had coronavirus on Boxing Day. It started with intense chest pains and ended five weeks later with a cough and fluid on the lungs I could not get rid of . It left me slightly breathless.

Any responsible government would have closed the borders.

This lot just encouraged people to enter unchecked and wonder around freely infecting us all.

Then blame us for not obeying the two metre ruling.

Honestly the whole lot of them can just fuck off.

Ds had a terrible chest infection type illness before Christmas, he was coughing so much he was sick, had red, sore eyes, lost his sense of smell & taste, had multiple courses of antibiotics & steroids & was off school for almost a month, he lost over a stone in weight. I had an awful chest infection that started overnight in February, my oxygen levels went down to 90%, I couldn't breathe, my ribs felt like I had been in a fight I staggered in to see the doctor, whose first words were "My god you look terrible". He diagnosed me with walking pneumonia & prescribed antibiotics, steroids & inhalers, it took me a good month before I felt any way near normal or as normal as I do with Fibromyalgia & ME/CFS.

Sweden's state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell says he would not be surprised if Sweden - like France - had isolated cases of coronavirus as far back as November last year.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/05/sweden-says-coronavirus-cases-likely-country-early-november/amp/

End of December I and DH had something that appears to match all CV symptoms..including a lack of smell and taste that lasted ages (taste is still not back properly tbh!)

Obviously it might not have been that, but at the time we were commenting about how..odd it was for seemingly 'a cold'. Also was odd that none of the kids seemed to get it, where usually once we go down with something, the house gets it.

I also know a few people that had an unusual virus that floored then in December/early January and if they were experiencing the same illness now we would definitely all think they had Covid.

However, I do not think this one 'possible' case in France, even if it turns out to be accurate testing, means that Covid was circulating any earlier than February. I think clusters of 'unusual' pneumonia would have been picked up in December/Jan if people were presenting at hospital (just like they were picked up in Wuhan in December) - so where were the alerts if this was happening here?

I think clusters of 'unusual' pneumonia would have been picked up in December/Jan if people were presenting at hospital

I was sick for 2 months, coughing hard for a month, escalating eventually to choking and retching fits day and night.

I eventually telephoned my GP and was prescribed antibiotics over the phone (they helped at lot, but it dragged on at a low level for another month or so). So I think a lot of earlier cases, assuming they were COVID, would have evaded hospital as they would have been younger people out and about more and therefore had lighter illness not requiring hospitalization. The later cases are your older, village bound, retired and/or care home based victims. They would have less contacts overall, take longer to catch en large, but with higher level of hospitalizations.

People talking about it not being flagged up - definitely mutates (and gets worse, thats documented). Also, before this was so 'famous' how many of us would have called or gone to a doctor with a persistent cough? Or even a flu? So unless at deaths door how many could have had it and not known? We will never know until they get the antibody test.

My daughter is in year 6 and therefore is in the age group most likely to be asked to go back to school first. She had asthma (very well managed). I will not know what to do to be honest. But in early March she had 3 days off school with a high temp and vomiting once. Id pay anything to get an antibody test to see if she had it (we were all under the weather, tired, achy, other daughter high temp) - a girl in her class' mum tested positive the following week. I just want to know.

Palacegirl you can pay £99 to get an antibody test, there is a thread about it on here

Minty - I agree completely

If a woman had covid in York in jan then that whole plane was exposed to it, as was Heathrow. And that’s one poorly woman, who knows who else had it without symptoms or flew home before seeking help?

On 17/11 I woke up with a really sore throat. The following day I woke up having had a horrific temperature overnight and felt like death. I was luckily on annual leave from work that week as I was extremely poorly. I had body aches, high temperature, lethargy and awful streaming eyes. I don’t remember being very snotty at all. The cough was rough. I am still tight chested now from this episode but had just put it down to asthma and working too hard, needing a break.
DH then developed an awful cough 4 weeks later. DD had been unwell with a cough and not cold symptoms and DS was coughing all night every night. I felt really bad as we still made him go to school as it was GCSE year and important for him to go in unless he was having an asthma attack.
I am almost convinced that we have had it. DS and I both have the flu jab and it didn’t feel fluey, it was chest consolidation.
I worked a day in our hospitals A&E department and most of the people there were pneumonia cases and being swabbed for flu- this was in the week between Christmas and New Year.
I’m in the South West and regularly go to Bristol. There was a school shut in my county before Christmas for a deep clean as it had such a high level of illness amongst staff and children.
I usually work in surgery and we had several patients who cancelled their surgery on the day or the day before as they were unwell with flu type viruses.

On December the 5th I went to Harry Potter world and it was absolutely packed with Chinese people... we had a lovely day etc 4 days later we all got some mysterious virus 🦠

My son came down with what we thought was chicken pox 7 days later he was in agony for 4 nights,

My sons best friend was at home sick for two weeks before Christmas... they all got it and the mum ended up in hospital with chest infection that tested negative for flu....

Jan 2nd I came down with all these covid symptoms, it was like I was constantly choking on phlegm, excessive night sweats etc and have been coughing ever since and all the other weird symptoms that go with it...
doctor sent me for a chest x ray in early March 😱

Herts has had a high number of cases - maybe it is Harry Potter studios!!

Herts also had pockets of high cases surrounding the private schools who all had done skiing trips in February

My MIL died in early January of Pneumonia related illness and had come back from a cruise 11 days earlier. I am convinced she caught it whilst travelling in December. She visited 11 countries on her cruise.

It doesn't make sense that Bristol had an earlier wave - if that happened why weren't people on ventilators with some dying In hospitals like everywhere else. It's like a conspiracy theory and it's not helpful.

I can't believe how many people are saying they think they had it yet it wasn't spreading and people weren't ill enough to be hospitalised. Winter flu and viruses are common.

Herts also loads of London commuters and close to Luton airport

Anyone travelling through an airport at Feb half term could have been exposed yes

It doesn't make sense that Bristol had an earlier wave - if that happened why weren't people on ventilators with some dying In hospitals like everywhere else.

Actually, Bristol on its own does make sense. The average age in Bristol is 33 years (vs 45 years in Lombardy). If the virus has been circulating within the younger population, we might not have seen many deaths or hospital admissions.

What is less clear is why C19 has not spread out to other cities / areas with older demographics earlier than Feb-March.

@Anniesnotmydaddy first wave more likely to be less deadly - google Spanish flu, first wave much less symptomatic, second wave 6 months later - peak. If cases began in Nov, second (more deadly) wave could have been April. If this was the case it would explain the herd immunity strategy to start with - more people get it early, less deadly it is? Only time will tell on that one when other countries may sadly catch up.