Time to get real people

[cookingmywaythroughlockdown]

Ok I think it's time to get a grip on reality!

Coronavirus is pretty nasty but it isn't apocalypse now time. Most of us are going to get it at some point and we will be just fine. So will our families and friends.
The UK cannot stay locked down for much longer without producing a national disaster that will reverberate for decades. So - you will be going back to work, your kids will be going back to school. Wash your hands well and enjoy your lives.
I'm just so sick of the posts prophesying carnage and really enjoying competitive isolation. For most people living like this is borderline harmful. For some it is already actively harmful.

We have to come out from under the bed. Wear a mask, wear gloves if you like but be prepared to live a normal if socially distanced life.

All epidemics burn themselves out eventually. We are much better placed to treat and protect the vulnerable then ever before. At some point soon we have to just get on with it.

Taxation is only one method of raising money, borrowing is another.

True, but usually governments borrow to stimulate the economy. Here the borrowing is to shut the economy down.

Of course the UK economy also depends on a functioning health care system, and I think that is the goal of the restrictions - to keep infection at a manageable rate, not to stop all deaths from Covid 19. If the government thought we were at that point now, and that they had sufficient resources to monitor the ongoing situation, I don't think they would be hesitating to end lockdown.

I forgot to add in my comment above where I said that an estimated for now case fatality rate of 1% may sound low but if millions get it that is a lot of deaths that also of course over 27,000 have died and Financial Times has reporters crunching the numbers that the real figure may be approx 45.000 deaths. These are significant numbers already and it’s important that a too hasty step to lift lockdown considerably will have us face another 27,000 - 45,000 figures within a few weeks. And as I wrote above it does not look like govt plan to have the country in lockdown for months more but calculate at least another few weeks is needed.

As soon as the government end lockdown people will think the problem is over as "the government wouldn't let us out if it wasn't safe".

Some will sure. But..those who are most scared about it all, surely they will stay isolated, even if the government relax things? hence not really understanding why some seem to think allowing others a bit of freedom will affect people who WANT to isolate?

Either way, I think I fall somewhere in the middle of the two polar opposites on lockdown. I think there should be some kind of plan for lifting (slowly) but do think its probably too soon right now. But, a plan would help a lot of those who are suffering mental health problems on account of lockdown. If its lifted soon, too soon for my liking, I will just keep my family away from the general public until such a time I feel safer.

Perhaps the OP could make friends with yesterday's OP then.
It was two threads below yours in Active, OP.
Did you think you were being original and clever?

If we get rid of all or most lockdown precautions, then not only will we have a spike in Covid deaths, we will also return to the mortality we previously had from things like car and workplace accidents, other infectious diseases, etc. So the death rate overall would go up significantly.

U.K. population = 66m.
WHO/UK Gov agree infection rate would be 80%.
Adults in 20’s to 40’s expected to die from Covid19 if infected = @ 0.3%.

66m x 0.8 x 0.003 = 150,000 give or take.

Breadwinners, single parents, etc...

Bravo OP ! I hope Boris rewards your steadfastness in the New Years Honours List.
Obviously the tens of thousands who have died may not agree with your 'we will be just fine' pronouncements.
And the scientists and epidemiologists and virologists who aren't sure what the long-term effects of coronavirus will be, may question your assertion that most people who get it will be fine afterwards.
But hey, who cares about those negative nellies!
^^ am I doing this right? There is something strangely liberating about ignoring facts and science isn't there?
Meanwhile, I'll tell my doctor relative that they didn't need admitted to hospital and given oxygen because someone on MN says everything is fine. And I'll tell my old school friend that the medical team treating them weren't 'being real'.
Gee, if only your wisdom had been available earlier. All those people wouldn't have talked themselves into early graves.

Lots of hate for op on display but nobody actually able to argue coherently against her point.

We can't just 'get on with it' while restrictions are still in place. I'm not really sure what argument the OP is trying to make.

OP - use these next few months/years as a test. We are all going to have to learn to live with less because climate change is far bigger than Covid19.

Highly insensitive post, when many have lost loved ones.

But op, don’t you realise that if restrictions are lifted gently people will need to go back to WORK. They won’t get to stay home, think of the commute, think of the school run, getting dressed again, They should at least get another four months of this utopia,,cmon now. ..much better to scream we will all die and get to enjoy this for another four months don’t you think...

@cookingmywaythroughlockdown

months of lockdown is a total middle class luxury
And no magic money tree either.

Agree with you 100%.
I am very surprised the tone of some of these responses. Disappointed, really.
Hopefully, OP, you will not take those too much to heart.
Hysterical people are allergic to logic.

True, but usually governments borrow to stimulate the economy. Here the borrowing is to shut the economy down.

What difference does it make? It’s the same principle keep money in circulation until the growth is happening sufficiently to start reducing annual deficits. At the moment the borrowing is to keep the economu not crashing even further, then there will be need to be further borrowing for a while as more of the workforce get back to work (49% still are working) and eventually govts can start to reduce deficits but it’s going to be a while.

Anyone who thinks there is a simple solution, and the answer is to 'just' do anything, is thick as a brick.

Dont care if that makes me rude or snobbish.

There are so many things to weigh up. People are going to suffer and die, businesses are going to fold, regardless. It's a pandemic, that's how they roll.

I agree with the sentiment we need a balance. It seems to me that people are getting less and less willing to balance competing needs and interests. Society works best with give and take and considering others, not individualism and 'me me me' rights.

much better to scream we will all die and get to enjoy this for another four months don’t you think...

As there are many signs that the govt don’t plan to keep this level of lockdown for another four months, but a few more weeks until r number sufficiently low along with sufficient testing, tracing and quarantining capacity finally in place I think you could argue those advocating to lift lockdown right now are the hysterical ones.

If everyone wasn’t getting paid to wfh or furloughed I guarantee responses would be different

@Whattodowhattodooo
and others on how useful a comparison is with Spanish Flu.
Perhaps we cannot compare medical care/advances and the facilities available in healthcare systems as of 2020, but would you accept that you can look at recent-ish history for the effects of social distancing and (if you like) attempts at wearing barriers like masks where the general public hadn't felt a need to before?

Where I do think it is valuable is the fact that we have a lot of years of hindsight into the beginning, middle, end, and aftermath of the 1918 pandemic, and so far, only the insight into the very beginning of this one. I have posted this link a few times but find this to be very interesting - a breakdown of actual major cities on the same landmass, and their variances in dates of lockdown, easing, and behaviour such as allowing parades to go ahead: www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/
So as far as a personal reaction to this goes, I will be keeping in social distancing mode as far as is practicable, until there's more positive advances.

As in I’d be interested in how many people opt for unpaid leave to stay at home next month

@Whattodowhattodooo

www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/

Anyone who thinks there is a simple solution, and the answer is to 'just' do anything, is thick as a brick

Thankfully we don’t have to listen to the op, nor is anyone making decisions. So carry on and see what happens next. We’ll move onto next stage and people going back whilst others wfh might be next wave of disharmony.

Correct Guylan

I think people really need to show some grit. It's a shite situation. But come on it's only been a few weeks and you cant manage that??? Put your shoulder to the wheel ffs like the rest of us.

We're not locking down/Social distancing to prevent individuals from getting it. We're doing it to prevent millions from getting it at once and hundreds of thousands from dying. In the same way that the government doesn't invite you to cancer screening because it values your life but because at a population level it saves huge numbers of lives.

Not all epidemics burn themselves out and many don't until huge numbers are dead.

months of lockdown is a total middle class luxury

Wow, we're middle class, I never thought. Even on earnings of less than £20k, about £13k after our business lost so much.
That's made my day, I'm going to call all my family and tell them, I'll bail them out as I'm mc.
Don't talk fuckin bollocks.

@devlesko but on another thread your business is losing hundreds of thousands? Mmm