Time to get real people

[cookingmywaythroughlockdown]

Ok I think it's time to get a grip on reality!

Coronavirus is pretty nasty but it isn't apocalypse now time. Most of us are going to get it at some point and we will be just fine. So will our families and friends.
The UK cannot stay locked down for much longer without producing a national disaster that will reverberate for decades. So - you will be going back to work, your kids will be going back to school. Wash your hands well and enjoy your lives.
I'm just so sick of the posts prophesying carnage and really enjoying competitive isolation. For most people living like this is borderline harmful. For some it is already actively harmful.

We have to come out from under the bed. Wear a mask, wear gloves if you like but be prepared to live a normal if socially distanced life.

All epidemics burn themselves out eventually. We are much better placed to treat and protect the vulnerable then ever before. At some point soon we have to just get on with it.

Why are we assuming there will be no provision for the vulnerable to continue to shield? I would have thought the government have considered this.

Because there are too many people in this group especially if you include all their household members. The shielding list includes only the extremely vulnerable. It doesn't include the majority of people who are high risk which will be a high proportion of the population. How are you going to shield parents who are high risk if other members of their household are back to work.

The shielding list doesn't include all of the most vulnerable. Diabetes and hypertension for example. Higher mortality rates than some on the shielding list.

Legal challenge to lockdown here

I take real offence at your post OP.

Yesterday I lost a very good friend to Coronavirus, he was in his 50s with no underlying conditions and healthy by all accounts. His family are devastated, as am I.

My neighbour has died from the virus and I know of others suffering. So, yes, the idea that we are all hiding under the bed with some irrational fear is insulting to this who have lost loved ones to Coronavirus.

No scaremongering needed. This is a very real threat to everyone. Not just to the ‘vulnerable’ but everyone.

Yes. A multi millionaire tax avoider who resides in Monaco (with a stricter lockdown) wants to cost the UK taxpayer (something he avoids being) a lot of money on a nonsensical court case for the government to prove basic common sense. To defend following (half-heartedly) expert advice from virologists and epidemiologists worldwide.

He seems unconcerned about his 'freedom' in Monaco where he lives.

We need our precious tax revenue (something Simon has failed to contribute to) more than ever. For the NHS, to keep businesses afloat during the pandemic, to help support bereaved children, to support the vulnerable.

We do not need to waste it on expensive legal action (easily dragged out on 'technicalities') brought by a tax avoiding expat who lives somewhere with a much stricter lockdown.

He professes concern about abuse victims, the vulnerable, struggling businesses. What a shame he doesn't donate something from his millions to these causes. He's saved quite a bit avoiding tax so he should have something to spare.

Nicedayforawedding

So, yes, the idea that we are all hiding under the bed with some irrational fear is insulting to this who have lost loved ones to Coronavirus

It may be insulting to you but don't presume that all those of us who have lost someone disagree with the OP. I, for one agree with the OPs sentiment if not the wording.

It may be insulting to you but don't presume that all those of us who have lost someone disagree with the OP. I, for one agree with the OPs sentiment if not the wording.

It depends on who you have lost so doesn't it? Losing a youngish relative you are close to would be far harder than losing a fairly distant elderly relative with dementia for example.

I lost my Mum so does that qualify me enough in your eyes to have an opinion, what with her not being young,distant or having dementia?

I will get real when I am good and ready to do so and feel safe enough. We still have an active infection rate.

Ok I think it's time to get a grip on reality!

Oh, well if you think that OP, we'd all better pull our socks up, stand to attention and do as you say then, hadn't we?

have been with many people gasping their last breaths with heart and lung failure. Normally "mild" symptoms means you dont have to be hospitalised.

@trappedsincesundaymorn

We have the highest death toll in Europe and more warning and resources than most. It's horrendous. We don't get to have a nice life now. There are consequences to this.

How have we managed to balls this up so badly?

It was ballsed up because the government took the view of the OP back in January and February. Let's pretend there isn't a highly contagious deadly virus on the loose. They thought they could continue as normal by denying reality. Us now having the highest death rate in Europe proves them wrong.

We're about to repeat those mistakes. Easing lockdown whilst we still have high levels of infection. We'll going to have one of the highest death rates in the world. And a buggered economy that takes longer to recover as a consequence.

There's no normality or a healthy economy when loads of the workforce are all off sick for long periods. Or dead. Or too traumatised to function normally.

Oh and the main reason for our very high (top of the European table) death rate?

It's very simple. We're not treating people.

The government are leaving people to die.

Other countries are giving early treatment when chances of survival are fairly decent. Antivirals, precautionary antibiotics, oxygen as soon as required, immunosuppressants for severe immune overreactions. That's why some countries with fairly high number of cases still have low death rates.

That could and should change. We need to start giving timely treatment. We also need to (finally) get enough PPE for frontline staff.

Very simple aims achieved by other countries. A safe way out of lockdown but for some reason our government doesn't want to do this. Let's hope they change their minds before we suffer more avoidable deaths and greater long-term economic damage.

Perhaps Simon of strictly locked down Monaco (who uses tax avoidance schemes to avoid paying UK tax) and his fellow multi millionaires might like to contribute to a fund to help pay for the PPE and the drugs that we need? He wrote in the telegraph today of his concern for those affected by the pandemic so presumably he'd like to do this.

You can’t compare
Italy had no cities similar size to ours and population is smaller
They’re also not recording all deaths

Deaths from all causes above 5 year average were 5% higher for Italy than us last week so likely they are still higher

Speculation like this doesn’t help

You simply cannot compare deaths at all when they’re all retting so differently

I know a paramedic, he has been unwell for a few days, yesterday he managed to get tested, results by Thursday. Been told to go home and only come back when he thinks it is life threatening. The hospital board he works for has plenty of empty covid beds, here we are still only admitting patients when they are on their last legs. His family are terrified for him.

It's not speculation. It's fact. People aren't being treated here until a late stage. When survival is less likely. Other countries are giving antivirals (no miracle cure but they do help lots of people) and precautionary antibiotics (to prevent secondary infection) early. That saves lives.

Wuhan has a similar sized population to London. So do other places. We're not just comparing to Italy. Our death rate is one of the highest in the world. Avoidable deaths will be included in our figures. Had people been given early treatment more would've survived.

Yes because repeating the mantra “the NHS has not been overwhelmed” seems to have been more important than getting people early treatment . Every time I hear a journalist or politician repeat that phrase I feel terrible.

How are we going to get over this? How is our collective psyche ever going to be able to get over it?

We can't go back but we can stop repeating the same mistakes over and over.

We need to start treating early. We need to try the antivirals, we need to get oxygen early as soon as it's needed. We need more PPE. This is something the government should be focusing on as a priority. It's not only to save lives. It's to save the economy. This is our way out of lockdown.

I'm sorry about your friend justasking I hope he's ok and has a good recovery.

Toffee I agree with everything you have posted.

daisy

You just said we couldn't compare death tolls (in relation to Britain being at the top) then you went on to say that Italy was likely higher - thereby comparing death tolls. Don't do that please.

You were right the first time, I think. There's little point in every Tom, Dick and Harry trying to be a statistical expert. Pointing this out and concluding with your own advice is madness, especially when what your have said is utter rubbish. Britain isn't taking all deaths into account either. There isn't any right way of juggling the numbers either, short of an outright cover up. Comparing deaths per million (makes us look slightly better) is a valid thing to do but doesn't negate other statistics making us look worse. The point is, we should be ashamed of ourselves in any universe. We're not a poor country and we saw it coming. Other countries, like Italy, don't have that excuse.

We now have a longer, harsher lockdown ahead to get out of the mess. And this time we don't get to go ahead before we actually develop some competence in the areas needed to keep the transmission rate as close to zero as possible. We can't rely on our ability to think on our feet and manage a crisis because we're pathetically crap at it. We just have to play it safe.