Coronaphobia - people just have to get a grip

[wakeupitsabeautifulmorning]

I'm really worried that irrational fears are going to absolutely ruin the country as well as putting people at massive risk of dying from other things or developing mental health. And God knows what parents with it will do to their dc's mental health and development (keeping dc off school until there's a vaccination etc.)

wakeupitsabeautifulmorning do you not believe in the virus? Have you been told that Bill Gates made it all up on orders from the Head Lizards?

TheCanterburyWhales

Am fully expecting it. There's none so blind as those that will not see. They'll be insisting next that a vaccine absolutely will be available come autumn (despite a vaccine never having been developed that quickly ever before). But, there we are.

I agree OP. It's always absolutely terrible when someone - child or adult - is suffering from MH issues. I read the other day of a man who killed himself because he was so terrified of catching Covid. He was increased risk being elderly. Perhaps he was scared about talk of lockdown ending too soon.

However, let's not manipulate suicidal people by using suicide as an excuse to end lockdown prematurely. Unfortunately many people are dying or suffering because of the pandemic - directly or indirectly. We can't magic away the coronavirus. All we can do is mitigate the damage to both lives and economy.

MH provision has been so poor for a long time. It's good to see such concern on this thread. Now all we need to do is improve it and this thread (and others like it) suggest there's a public will for this. During lockdown MH HCP providing care to the vulnerable count as essential workers. If care is not being provided something's gone wrong and needs to be sorted out.

TheCanterburyWhales

Not disputing the facts, fully believe that 33% of those tested died but the facts are presented poorly. If one of my analysts presented that to be on a report, they would be asked to go back at turn it in to a rate ... A rate of infection, a rate against population, anything that to make it meaningful data.

I can understand people's concerns, but I'm afraid that the government aren't just going to keep paying for people to hide away indefinitely.

We heard Boris yesterday and Matt Hancock today.. they want people back to school and work.

I did notice when Boris was talking he clearly said school and work, not family gatherings.

Or even broken down into the patient groups the report stated 🤷‍♂️

Imaystillbedrunk

I'm not one of your staff. Feel free to read the study yourself and extract whatever data you like.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1

The study for you

Here is the study that hearhooves was referencing, I believe:

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf+html

It is indeed correct that 33% of people in hospital with covid as identified by this study have died. Which is awful and very frightening.

It’s also true that only a tiny percentage of those deaths were in people under 50 years of age - about 1% - as you’ll see if you scroll down to the graphs at the end of the study.

Of course that doesn’t mean it’s not something to be very upset and worried about. Every life lost is a tragedy for a family somewhere no matter the persons age.

But yet again the evidence shows that for youngish people - regardless of health actually - the risk of mortality is incredibly low. That doesn’t mean zero!! But it does mean low.

Having said that, I find the use of the phrase “get a grip” incredibly unhelpful especially for people with mental health problems. What we need to offer each other is rational, factual conversations, support and kindness imho - not “a grip”

Over and out

Yes Boris, like all of us, wants people back to work and schools. He also cautioned against that happening too soon. He's said he wants to avoid the economic damage a second wave would bring.

This is from the National Mental Health Director for NHS England:

Ms Murdoch was later asked about the impact of the pandemic on suicide and said: “There’s absolutely no evidence currently that we’ve seen a spike in suicides or self-harm, so that evidence does not sit there yet and I checked this last night with our national and international expert and we absolutely have not seen that.

“We’re working with Public Health England on real-time surveillance and they have been rapidly developing a tool and a process for gathering information from various sources to see whether we are seeing an increase in self-harm or suicide amongst youngsters.

“That said, we are pretty certain that levels of distress, anxiety, worry and depression will have increased for children and young people during this period.

“There have been various studies as we’ve seen, in fact for adults as well, everybody is more worried.

“I do think it’s very important that we don’t succumb at this stage to a narrative of massive spikes in suicide and that we’re very responsible in how we understand the evidence there.”

I'm really worried that irrational fears are going to absolutely ruin the country as well as putting people at massive risk of dying from other things or developing mental health. And God knows what parents with it will do to their dc's mental health and development (keeping dc off school until there's a vaccination etc.)

Perhaps instead of judging what other people might be doing, maybe ask yourself why it bothers you so much. Whether I keep my kids off school or send them, whether I work from home, never see family and friends again is absolutely none of your business or concern. As long as there is guidance about social behaviour and I at least follow the minimum requirements it’s got nothing to do with you whether I live a more restricted life or not.

The whole thing is a crap shoot and it’s always going to be a balance of going too far too soon or being too cautious. Different people will have different views depending on their personal circumstances but to suggest I and others are sacrificing our children on a whim is disrespectful at best. My and my children’s lives will go back to normal when I deem it safe enough and at a rate I feel is appropriate - working within guidelines. I won’t be pressured into placing my family at undue risk because you think I should get a grip.

You make your decisions and let others make theirs, and save your pseudo concern for someone who gives a shit what you think.

I’m not in anyway denying that this virus is devastating and thousands are dying. But people need to keep it in perspective because most people will not die especially young mums and children. All this talk of from healthy, young women dying and leaving dc without a mother is quite frankly hysterical. Or their dc going to school and catching it and dying is extremely unlikely. Dc are more likely to die from chicken pox, choking, falling of trampolines, crossing roads.

@LeFluffyPants As you say people over fifty are as valuable as those younger. So I assume you're in favour of an age related lockdown easing? It's certainly one option to consider when we're ready to start reading it. I'd lower it to forty. The risk seems to increase from then. When considering an age approach we'd need to bear in mind many over fiftiess have young children, who presumably won't want to lose their parents to Covid. We'd also need to exclude younger people who have any underlying health conditions.

Thanks for the link to the study

I’m not advocating we come out of lockdown too early btw. Just saying people need to stop being irrational.

All this talk of from healthy, young women dying and leaving dc without a mother is quite frankly hysterical. Or their dc going to school and catching it and dying is extremely unlikely

All of which is fine until it’s your mother or your child. I’m all for perspective and balance but it’s pretty cold to dismiss folks very real fears in the face of a pandemic - the very face it’s brought society to a halt means it’s something to be reckoned with, I’d want to be clear all precautions had been taken before dropping my kids back at school.

What % of the population actually has it?

What % of that are symptomatic?

What % have it AND are symptomatic AND ill enough to be hospitalised? (Ages ago i read that was about a fifth of cases).

So - of the people that catch it AND are symptomatic AND are bad enough to end up in hospital - one third die.

So - what's the maths on that? A 3rd of a 5th of ?% of the population?

Hmm. I think it's down to how you personally view these figures.

Just saying people need to stop being irrational.

And you know enough about folks individual circumstances to judge whether they’re being rational or not? Or is it just that anyone who disagrees with you is irrational?

LOL

If I end up ill with it, I'll be in major trouble. So I'll carry on being really bloody careful thanks - you can shove it.

Couldn't agree more!!!!

How did Imperial know those patients admitted didn't have underlying conditions? Do they test them to see if they're pre-diabetic, inactive, heavy drinkers etc?

Hi @ToffeeYoghurt I’m honestly not sure what I’m in favour of or what might be best, it’s so difficult... but yes age related release from lockdown does seem like one possibility doesn’t it? As you say, under 40s seem to be at lowest risk. Still obviously very hard for older people though... It’s so difficult to say what might be best as whatever we decide, many people will still be negatively impacted! Sorry that’s not very insightful

All this talk of from healthy, young women dying and leaving dc without a mother is quite frankly hysterical. Or their dc going to school and catching it and dying is extremely unlikely.

Are people saying that though? I think the majority of people understand that the risk of dying under the age of 40 is very small but then it goes up and once you are in to 50s and 60s it goes up quite a bit, unless you have underlying conditions. People are not only afraid of themselves getting it but of other close family members getting it - maybe a spouse or an older parent, also siblings of a vulnerable child. I don't think it's up to you to.tell anyone to get a grip. You have no understanding of their circumstances at all and frankly, whether I choose to ever leave my house again or not. is none of your business is it?

OP

Anything less than hysteria is not welcome on MN. You just get accused of being a conspiracy theorist.