Coronaphobia - people just have to get a grip

[wakeupitsabeautifulmorning]

I'm really worried that irrational fears are going to absolutely ruin the country as well as putting people at massive risk of dying from other things or developing mental health. And God knows what parents with it will do to their dc's mental health and development (keeping dc off school until there's a vaccination etc.)

I'm not irrationally afraid of dying. I am rationally concerned about the consequences of an uncontrolled pandemic. Personally, im worried about several isolated relatives, and the likelihood that at least one will die before i can see them again. I worry about my dh facing bereavement and redundancy trapped with just me and young DC. I worry about a dear friend, living alone and unable to see their terminally ill parent. But this isn't about individuals. This is about facing a catastrophic outcome if we don't act.

I think much more money will need to pour into mental health after this (austerity is not necessary and counter productive) but lockdown is not an overreacting

@Zogsbigsister Hello - well done you - I feel your pain - I am single mum of 3, working in a carehome where we initially had insufficient PPE in the early stage of an outbreak - I’ve had it, been off for 14 days and now having to return to work praying I won’t be reinfected. I do think it’s a dangerous, unpredictable disease and we still know very little about it and until there is comprehensive testing, we should keep up with the lockdown.

We have had staff with mild cases (and unpleasant) but 8 of our residents were struck down very quickly - there is a sector of society that will need to be extremely careful. Anxieties are so high amongst healthcare staff, especially when we have caring responsibilities but I wish the media would focus as much on the recoveries as they do the deaths - most get through this - in the meantime, we have to continue to be sensible and support people who are at higher risks.

Like many of these threads, I feel like the answer lies in between the two opposing arguments.

Of course those who have been classed as vulnerable (whether that's vulnerable enough to shield or take other precautions) should be more aware and proactive in regards to the pandemic's events.

However, and I say this as someone who is in the vulnerable category, we simply cannot expect everyone else in society to stop to continue to keep us 'safe'. The whole premise behind lockdown was simply to help the NHS be able to handle cases- it wasn't explicitly to help the vulnerable (this point being proven by a lot of vulnerable people not being offered ventilation, etc).

The next few weeks will see a relaxation in rules. People will have to go back to work. Children will have to return to schools eventually. Of course, everyone is entitled to make their own decisions regarding their safety, but it shouldn't be down to the government to fund these at this point, anymore. If you don't want to go back to the office, then you'll simply have to figure it out with your boss, or quit. A lot of people have had nearly two months of being relatively safe at home- something that NHS, retail and other frontline workers haven't had the pleasure of. Things need to go back to normal for the sake of the rest of society.

There will come a time where there's a 'handover' of responsiblity for the vulnerable, and it's coming relatively soon. The majority of the population will be handing the responsibility of protecting the vulnerable, back to the vulnerable. The rest of society will begin to rebuild, taking pauses every so often to stifle any other peaks, but generally speaking, things will slowly get back to normal. The vulnerable will have to make their own decisions- if they want to live a normal life, they take the risk of dying from Covid. If they want to protect themselves, then it's down to them and only them.

It is quite an inherently selfish attitude to expect an entire population to keep in lockdown until a vaccine, which might never come, just to protect a small proportion of society. I'm not saying that those classed as vulnerable are any less worthy than anyone else, but, they're not anymore important, either.

And, regarding the panic over CV-19? It will relax. Humans tend to become complacent after a few weeks of panic. Once things start opening up again, someone will go for a coffee with a friend once. It will be fine. The following week it might be a coffee and lunch. And so on. It might take time, but people will eventually relax, especially when they realise that the majority are.

Get a grip is a bit harsh but I think things are going to get tougher in a month or two.

Furlough and working from home with young children is a temporary situation. In one or two months people are going to have to make decisions.

Return to work or stay at home without 80% of your salary. Send your kids to school or nursery and work the hours you are paid to work from home. Employers are only tolerating people working from home whilst providing childcare during working hours due to the situation.

Guess who will be top of the redundancy list?

Who on earth is “willing the elderly to die”? Hyperbole much?

yes most people are mentally robust enough to cope with lockdown. But young dc currently isolated in abusive households may suffer greatly, and have no power to change their situation. School isnt the total panacea for that, but it is a chance to be in a safe environment for part of the day, and (sometimes) a route to get further help.

I dont know how one ‘weighs’ that interest against all the other considerations.

Because death is more permanent than an abusive childhood. It's still not okay, but home life doesn't suddenly become happy just because of school. Also the solution should be different. There are too many women who feel they can't leave with their children because of finances, not knowing how to cope with being a single mum and working fulltime, and scared what will happen to them and the kids if they leave. These women should have more help available to them than there is right now.

Cantory yes they are offered a place in school, but aiui there’s a problem that they are not all going, Because the parents dont take them - anecdotal i know but some mn teachers have expressed concern about this i think. And of course that anyway only applies to those dc who have already been identified as.vulnerable.
Its difficult to know how to weigh their interests, i know.

If our stupid government had locked down early, our peak would have been lower, our lockdown would have been shorter, the economic hit would have been less.
Blame the Tories.

I do agree being at school doesnt make an abusive childhood a happy one, but it can be a huge respite for those dc. I also think its very difficult to know how to weigh up these competing considerations.

@cantory
No, it doesn't mean we should not care about people that are ill or die but we need to remember that the majority of people who are ill do recover.

@fromlittleacorns Yes I saw a thread on MN from a mum angry that the school were ringing every day to check how things were. There must have been issues for them to do that.
If parents are not taking them it might be better to put in place pick ups?

@lunar Yes true, but I care about those who die, and those who live and may be left with long term health problems as a result.

It is quite an inherently selfish attitude to expect an entire population to keep in lockdown until a vaccine, which might never come, just to protect a small proportion of society. I'm not saying that those classed as vulnerable are any less worthy than anyone else, but, they're not anymore important, either.

Absolutely this and it's the way it should be and I say this as someone who should be shielding. Absolutely nobody else is responsible for protecting me, why would somebody who doesn't know me give two shits what happens to me.

@stretchedmarks I think you've summed it up perfectly.

OP I agree with your sentiment. The majority of people seem to have lost sight of what the lockdown was intended for and the Government urgently needs to address it. We didn't lockdown to eradicate or get rid of the disease, it was to prevent the NHS from becoming overwhelmed. We are going to need to learn to live with the disease as a society, as it's unlikely to disappear anytime soon, even with a vaccine, and that unfortunately means we can't sit at home forever.

It's a personal and individual choice to stop your children attending school once they re-open or not travel to work but, as PP have pointed out, the Government will not fund people to stay at home forever and serious choices will need to be made.

People are losing interest in lockdown naturally now. The shop I was in earlier was rammed with little distancing and the queue for then takeaway was 20 long. Those that are frightened will stay that way until either a cure or a vaccine is found I would imagine. Others will just get back to as normal a life as possible. I still have many friends who think they are going away in July and August.

Social distancing until a vaccine isn't about protecting the vulnerable. It continues to be about protecting the nhs. Because if we go back to normal, we will face exactly the same crisis that put us in lockdown. Millions ill at once, an nhs unable to deliver care, half a million dead, the economy destroyed because nothing can function, food shortages, power outages. This is not about the vulnerable at all.

@RedGirl99

You are right with that too. My company said we can take as long as we want off but we won’t be paid if we do. Simple economics comes into play eventually and as soon as the furlough runs out, most people will have no choice but to return to work whether they want to or not. Retired people can choose to continue isolating. Childcare will be a huge problem if grandparents are taken out of the equation

@eskarina1

It’s also bought the government some time to get the nightingale hospitals in place and order extra ventilators.

@Seelowbrown No anyone working and not well off will have no choice but to go to work even if they know they are at a high risk of dying.

A vaccine is coming, hopefully by the end of the year.
And it is not inherently selfish not to want to die, it is a basic human instinct. Especially when you are younger and have many years ahead of you.

DH is asthmatic. It's not irrational to fear a contagious virus that attacks your ability to breath.

@TheCanterburyWhales Hello! I have been lurking, dipping in and out, but mainly enjoying the good weather until a few days ago, now I’m back!

@imaystillbedrunk - I've heard a lot on MN about ambulances not coming til people are blue...but I'm not sure how widespread that is? I'm in hospital now and while very poorly - I had some breathlessness but not to the extent of feeling I couldn't breath or turning blue when I was admitted.

Phil “ Absolutely this and it's the way it should be and I say this as someone who should be shielding. Absolutely nobody else is responsible for protecting me, why would somebody who doesn't know me give two shits what happens to me.”

I’m asthmatic as well and this is what I think.

Jax says something about people being tougher than they think. Not that tough if they fear death so much they’d rather restrict the freedom of millions.

You are concerned about people developing mental health issues

Yet those you feel are overly anxious should get a grip

Maybe you need to understand how anxiety impacts people’s lives (it’s one of the most debilitating mh issue that someone can suffer from)

And for some people their anxiety is based on physical health issues that they or family suffer from

I really dislike this sneery attitude of a number of here telling people to not be so foolish and basically toughen up with the pretence of being concerned about the mental health of the general public