To think people will have to stop using grandparents for childcare

[Emmagainno3]

First of us I know this would be extremely difficult for some people, in particular single parents. But I can’t understand with all the talk about how dangerous it would be for kids to go back to school and passing it between each other, it also isn’t mentioned about how dangerous it would be to get children minded by older relatives.
The fact is covid affects older people more frequently and more severely than younger people. Surely there’s way more of a risk in getting grandparents to mind young children than for children to pass on covid between each other and to go back to their own immediate family.
( I’m aware some children are more vulnerable health wise etc but I’m talking majority of cases here) .
I’ve just heard of friends talking about going back to work but not wanting the schools to open but they would also be using grandparents for childcare. It just seems way more dangerous to me. Me and my dh have never had even 10 mins of childcare help from any of our families and of course it had affected our jobs and earning potential as we have to pay for all our childcare. Covid has had a huge impact on us financially. I just can’t understand the logic of keeping schools closed or having extreme measures put in and then having granny/granddad at the door collecting again.

so

It’s not that simple. DH and I are both teachers so will be both back full time when school reopens.

Our younger DS has a rare medical condition that needs specific care (he is a toddler). He’s vulnerable but not shielding. He’s never gone into childcare as his needs around feeding could not be met, my Mum has always cared for him whilst we are at work. To put him into childcare now isn’t possible.

But can’t you see 0v9c99f9g9d939d9f9g9h8h that for some grandparents, the thought of not seeing their family for a whole year is more horrific than the thought of contracting it?
My mum has already had it (fairly mildly), but she lives alone, has no other family, suffers from severe depression after my brother died in his 20’s, and she has said she is really really struggling not seeing us. I don’t think she would cope with it for a year, the loneliness itself is killing her.

A year is not a terribly long time in your 40s or, for most people, in your 60s. You can reasonably expect to have more than a year left. When you start edging up into older age groups, or people who might already be in perilous health themselves, a year could be the rest of your life. A year is not an equal length of time for everyone. Well, obviously it is an equal measurement of time, but when you start measuring it as a proportion of life expectancy from this date, the figures will look very different depending on your circumstances.

Well, the reality of the desire to reopen schools for the economy is that this may well be insufficient, and incredibly flawed outlook, no matter how they do it.
On average upto a third of employees use grandparents for childcare. So that would mean that a large majority of those employees won't ge able to use this, nor return to work on their usual hours. It may well make their position untenable and result in unemployment as a result if they cannot work from home.
The opening of school is further compounded by the fact that many children will have parents and guardians that have been shielding and it will not be ot be possible for them to isolate from their children, due to space, being lone parents etc. Until those issues are resolved I don't think that the grandparents issue is the major issue at play here. It's an issue of how to protect the most vulnerable first and then sort the rest.

Op you don't seem to have address the previous post about grandparents as kinship carers, or the fact that a lot of grandparents are similar ages to parents. It's perfectly possible to have primary aged children at 50, whilst another person may have a grandchild or 2 by the same age.

You can reasonably expect to have more than a year left. When you start edging up into older age groups, or people who might already be in perilous health themselves, a year could be the rest of your life.

Surely someone that frail wouldn't be able to provide childcare anyway.

There's also the emotional blackmail of parents forcing their kids onto the grandparents for cheap/free convenient childcare.

My sister did it with my parents - GPs looking after her kids was just expected and she kicked up a right fuss whenever my parents wanted a day off or to go on holiday etc. They couldn't say no.

I suspect a lot of elderly GPs would actually prefer not to do babysitting & childcare but won't want to say it!

Surely someone that frail wouldn't be able to provide childcare anyway

Yes, very true. I thought the discussion had sort of moved on a bit to general 'keeping grandchildren and grandparents apart'. But I accept that these sort of grandparents are not going to be the childcare providers.

driving

Yes. The thought. In reality, caution might mean you get many more years with your grand children but naturally the person is feeling too horrified to weigh that up sometimes I think.

Tara66 I can only take their word for it. I’m on maternity leave so it’s a genuine choice for my children’s grandparents rather than any pressure regarding us needing to work. But maybe they are horrendously put upon, who knows

0v9c99f9g9d939d9f9g9h8h So is the answer to take that decision away from them?

My parents are living abroad. We normally go to see them once or twice a year, one of them being during the summer hols.
I know my parents are devastated at the idea of not seeing their grandchildren then. My father even more, even though he is the one who is really at risk (he has cancer and a few other thinsg as well).

If my dcs were younger and in need of 'childcare' (at that time, they were living closer), I know my parents would have been heartbroken at the idea they couldnt look after them during the hols. Because those grandchildren were the very reason why they moved abroad near us. The impact on their MH couldnt have been ignored.

If she would genuinely not survive mentally then it's always an individual decision isn't it driving. But people in that age bracket have cancer treatment that adds up to a similar time frame all the time, during which they must shield, so that they can enjoy future years with family.

It's not easy though.

I suppose I don't think people always know what's best for them.

Who are you to decide what's best for people?
What is important or not in someone's life is a very personal decision and I don't think anyone has the right to impose their view of the world on someone else.
Some people decide to not go for chemo for a cancer. They are not crazy or ignorant. They are doing what is right for them.
I knew someone who uncontrolled diabetes who was still eating lots of crap/carbs/chips. He had made the decision that those foods were his only pleasure in life and he wasnt going to remove that pleasure from his life. Despite knowing the conseuence of doing so (he died from heart issues due to the diabetes).
Looking after their grandchildren might well be the one thing that is keeping a grandparent from falling into depression, the meaning of their life (because they feel useful etc...).

Saying they are just silly and non compliant is just patronising.

@0v9c99f9g9d939d9f9g9h8h, surely its up to the grandparents to decide what is and isnt important to them???

I mean, if they are undergoing cancer treatment, they will be unlikely to be fit enough to look after a child anyway. Outside of a treatment? I am actually not sure (I havent seen anything about cancer in itself being a comorbidity). But it cetainly is a personal deccision.
After all, if you know you ony have a few years left to live, you might chose to spend the next yeat seeing your grandchild rather than being isolated and alone at home....

I've copied below a translation of the main news story here today (Switzerland).
Koch is the Swiss chief medical officer.
I've not seen anything like this reported in the UK (not to say it hasnt, just I have not seen it).

Koch: "Children pose no danger"
Grandparents could hug their grandchildren safely. Daniel Koch confirms this. But they should still not take care of the little ones.
According to Koch, the reason for this is that this could lead to a mixture of generations and to increasing contact. Not the children, but the adults could infect the grandparents. "We want to avoid that."

"Then you are in too close contact with your parents - and soon you will be drinking coffee as usual," says Koch. The parents are still a risk of infection for the risk group.

According to Koch, however, there is no danger from small children. The present "toddlers are practically not infected and hardly pass on the virus," says Koch. "Grandparents can therefore hug their grandchildren again."

Data showed that they are hardly infected and do not transmit the disease. "Therefore, there is no danger from the children, not even for high-risk individuals or grandparents."
According to Koch, this applies to children up to around ten years of age. Body contact is no longer desirable in adolescents.

Grandparents should be able to decide what risks they are prepared to take.

But for those parents saying they have no choice - you must do. What would you do if your parents became victims of the disease? Is doing that temporarily really worth risking their lives?

Both sets of grandparents live with us - massively reducing their risk re care homes/ hospital/ visiting carers etc - perhaps I should ask the dc to move into the garage?

Deeply unconvinced that amongst shopping, pharmacy visits, doctors visits, carers/volunteer visits alongside those gps working etc that the grandchildren are the no1 risk factor.

I think people will make their own choices. I can 100% tell you no way would mine or dhs parents not see the kids.
My dad comes past on his daily walk and stands at the wall so kids can see him. My mum. And dhs parents video call everyday.
I'm lucky in that I'm a sahm but my dad has my dd eow and dh parents have her once a week for fun
They all. Will with the baby too soon.

Agree completely. The point you’re making is not that people shouldn’t use grandparents for childcare but that people are only getting worked up at the idea of schools reopening. In my opinion the answer to both is exactly the same - in an ideal world we wouldn’t use grandparents as childcare or reopen schools while this virus is out there but the reality is we have to. Otherwise the resulting economic damage will be far worse than the virus itself.

Id be far more concerned about vulnerable parents. Single parents in particular.

Using grandparents for childcare is a choice. What do vulnerable parents do? Not parent anymore. You're talking thousands of potential orphans.

I'm not saying grandparents shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves.... But I don't think anyone is at their best in a decision-making capacity when feeling horrified, lonely and the ever-changing details need a lot of medical knowledge to grasp. We prioritise the short term rewards because we want to feel better soon... If this wasn't true, we wouldn't have so many health issues that could be solved with better preventative health care and self care. Only now it's a matter of life and death for some who will be making this choice and they have children saying there's no other option because there are bills to pay ( children who will have to find another option when some of this generation pass away from covid as they will).

Sometimes we're not the best custodians of our own health.

This concerns me massively. If my daughter goes back to school and I go back to work I will be looking to use wrap around care, and adjust my working hours as best as possible to avoid this situation. I would rather the school stayed shut, and I went to work. Because then my daughter could go to her grandparents as the contact with others would be much lower than if she’s playing with others at school and grandparents have to pick her up.