Posters who want lockdown lifted

[DianaT1969]

I'm seeing an increase in threads where the poster is impatient for exact details of an exit strategy (even though we can all imagine what it will involve - phased re-opening of some stores and businesses etc,,). Plus we're hearing the usual cries of lockdown is hurting society more than it's helping.
Spain saw a spike in new infections today - the highest since their peak 3 weeks ago. To these posters I'd like to ask what your thread titles will be during our spikes in infections and deaths after this lockdown?
What I'm really getting at is that you don't seem to understand that we're in this for the long haul. There is no quick fix, back to normal.

I decided to look up the TB stats last night. It has been declared a global health emergency by the WHo every year since 1993. 1.5 million people die of it every single year

The WHO normally spends about three times their TB budget on travel. It's normal for their executives to fly first class and stay in Four Seasons or similar, take helicopters instead of jeeps and so on.

People don't give a stuff about TB as it tends to kill poor people in developing countries.

I read earlier in the week that due to money being diverted from malaria treatment to Covid treatment, there is projected to be approx an extra 1 million deaths from Malaria this year.

@MRex well you've come up with a completely daft comparison that is totally irrelevant to the point I was making. I was saying we see this as a huge urgent problem at which all our resources must be thrown to stop it killing people. Cleaning our drinking water is not exactly a big deal and the reason poor countries don't have any is largely due to government corruption. I'm comparing our response to an infectious disease that doesn't affect us to one that does, and the endless vilification of young people that don't care about lockdown because the disease won't affect them to our usual policy response to diseases that don't affect us in large numbers. The additional issue is that all our economies are so fucked that all other health outcomes both here and in developing countries will be worse for many years, because we can't fund them. Why is that a good outcome? Sure, we've saved lives right now with the lockdown. What about preventive health policy tackling obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and yes, TB. What about the funds that are needed to tackle antibiotic resistance? That all takes money we've now spunked on disappearing up our own arses.

@Tootletum - People also die from lack of clean water, should water companies in this country just stop cleaning tap water? That's just as logical as your daft little rant.

I completely agree with tootletum and don't follow your logic at all. Her point is that we could save literally tens of millions of lives relatively cheaply - clean drinking water, malaria, TB and so on are all low-hanging fruit - but we don't.

Then people with complex/expensive health care needs in the first world feel threatened by a disease, and are shocked that random strangers aren't willing to sacrifice an unknown quantity of their lives, freedom and money to 'save' them in the way that they choose. It's not enough to pay taxes; they're supposed to happily remain under lockdown indefinitely.

Well, no.

@Tootletum - The reason for reducing spread is not just to save the lives of people who are very likely to die from this, it's to manage the issues caused by everyone catching it. If people who work for water companies all end up off work sick because we decided to have no controls, who exactly do you think is cleaning your water?
People have been asked to follow some distancing rules for a very short period, a small proportion can't work at all at the moment. We all know the restrictions will gradually lift. The UK governments and their employees are responsible for lives in the UK, not for every life globally. If you want to focus on saving other lives globally then go for it, nobody is stopping you from getting involved in that work, it's still got nothing to do with the UK government assessing risks to UK lives.

Then people with complex/expensive health care needs in the first world feel threatened by a disease, and are shocked that random strangers aren't willing to sacrifice an unknown quantity of their lives, freedom and money to 'save' them in the way that they choose. It's not enough to pay taxes; they're supposed to happily remain under lockdown indefinitely

Yep- this exactly.

The cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy here is off the scale! Its mind boggling

@Blackbeans, that is my point as well. Medical treatment needs to go on for other conditions as well, though I appreciate that due to possibility of catching it it may be too risky for some.

NHS have started a campaign to encourage people to still seek help for other conditions as well.

If people who work for water companies all end up off work sick because we decided to have no controls, who exactly do you think is cleaning your water?

Being that covid19 is mild or asymtomatic in 80% of the population, I'm not worried.

We can cope.

There is no working antibody test yet, that statistic is entirely made up. You know that, right?

Comparing what happens abroad with regards to malaria and other health problems to this current health emergency in this country is the same as comparing apples with oranges. Lots of money has been raised and given to third world countries for decades : my mum was born in 1925 and she remembered the 'penny box ' in church for the poor in Africa. She was living in poverty herself.
Money and resources have been donated in their millions and millions by red nose days and other charities , but the problems and deaths and lack of clean water still remain. I often wonder why this is , although I know the answers are not that simplistic.

Saying that we shouldn't do anything here about this virus because others are still dying in other less fortunate places than ours is a skewed outlook. This has been a wake up call as to how lucky we are to have all the things we take for granted if nothing else.

Restrictions will be lifted gradually. The NHS is clearly coping now and today's call on tv. for people to use it is a message that things are looking up ( a bit at least)
Lockdown was needed for many reasons but I do agree that we can't keep it up forever and a proper exit plan is needed and not something the daily mail is cobbling together on its own! People saying a year are also a bit deluded too. That won't work at all. It's a balancing act.

Totally agree @tootletum and @marginalgain. The facts are that only a tiny minority are at real danger from this virus, why should everyone’s quality of life be made poorer.

Why don’t people with mental health issues, cancer, heart problems etc etc seem to matter anymore. NICE refuse to allow some treatments because they’re too expensive, they would have been a tiny drop in the ocean against the money being splashed everywhere now. For example a doctor was asked to run a covid clinic near Bath. Over the two weekends (Saturday and Sunday) he did it he didn’t have one patient but was paid £900 per session. Private hospitals have been hired by the NHS for millions of pounds but lie empty while the doctors who usually work ther aren’t able to see their patients. What are going to be the long term affects from throwing so much money at this and probably ruining a lot of the economy.

Most people probably only think about malaria and tb when they bung a few quid at comic relief and I include myself in that, so no I don’t want my quality of life and my children’s quality of life made immeasurably poorer for a bunch of people in this country that I don’t know- sorry.

I think some people are getting confused with the Black Death. It's not carrying off whole villages in a matter of hours.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter I would perhaps venture to suggest there is also an IQ differential...

@Tootletum you've expressed some if my own thoughts in this really well.
It's almost as if people in the West consider mass, preventable deaths elsewhere as just one of those things, or they might have a quick little moan about corruption in Africa to quell their conscience, or donate a few quid to a charity if they're a bit kinder. But it's firmly in the Does Not Affect Me category.
Now there's a disease that might and, even though it's nothing like as deadly, we are seeing them argue for things like two year lockdowns which will literally kill millions through starvation globally.

And I should caveat this. I know covid is far worse than flu. I wasn't anti lockdown and I have been scrupulous in sticking to it. But I do think there needs to be a realism about what can be achieved, and the broader socio-economic impact.
Overall I think a lockdown into 2021 would have a far worse outcome than just letting it rip. I don't want that either, I want to see proper testing and tracing, treatments and a vaccine. But the world cowering indoors forever? No.

@tootletum and @maxnormal

I agree.

There is no working antibody test yet, that statistic is entirely made up. You know that, right?

Why would you need an antibody test to tell you what percent of covid19 cases are mild or asymptomatic?

There are plenty of case studies around.

I also think that many people want lockdown continued for selfish reasons. There are quite a few posters on this board who are loving lockdown life with their secure jobs where they can work from home, big gardens, and peaceful life.

They have little thought for those in studio flats with bored children to entertain. Or those made unemployed, or those at risk of being unemployed in the very near future due to this. People on 80% wages and can't afford their bills. And what about those with mental health issues, who are being pushed to the edge with all of this.

And if the economy suffers too much, it will affect most jobs - there will be a domino effect and it will start to affect those it hasn't yet affected. Ending lockdown sooner rather than later is in the best interests of everyone. Without an economy, there will be no NHS.

We can't stop the virus- it's here to stay and people are probably entering the country everyday with it. We just have to learn to live with it.

@Wave I was thinking that. Plenty of teachers and similar saying their MH and lives have improved since lockdown. Which is a pretty damning assessment of how srressful some careers are.

My partner is a redeployed specialist nurse who normally does diagnostic screens on those with red flag symptoms for a certain cancer. Not done any of those for 4 weeks. Once the peak goes, there is going to have be some attempt to get the wider NHS back in operation of non-Covid death rates are going to rise rapidly. We’re also going to have to have some way of starting to lift the lockdown for lower risk groups and in a very staged way.

The lockdown was to allow the NHS to cope, it wasn’t to stop the infections completely . Some countries took the stop infections route and we will need to see what happens as they come out of their lockdown periods.

But we will have to come out. There will be social unrest and we will be worried about the economic impact. Someone was talking about final year graduates this year - no graduate jobs to go to, no casual jobs to go to. And probably in low risk groups.

@Gwynfluff

NHS England think we're past the peak and are starting to plan how to start getting back to routine work.

Of course teachers lives have improved. They aren’t teaching or looking after whole classes, exams are cancelled, it’s sunny, they are on full pay.

What’s not to like?

I wouldn’t be a teacher, it’s incredibly stressful. They work harder than people realise. Tests, teaching, pressure all come with the job though, I think honestly that if it’s so awful then they should reconsider their career and find something that gives them a better work life balance

Lots of whataboutery on this thread.

The fact that people elsewhere in the world die of preventable or treatable conditions like those caused by dirty water supply, malaria or TB does not make a valid argument for allowing hundreds of thousands of people in the UK to die from Covid-19.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Ending lockdown in the UK won't save any lives from eg TB or malaria in poor countries elsewhere.

In fact, the opposite, as widespread Covid-19 infections in the UK would be much more likely to lead to greater infections spreading in poorer parts of the world. On top of the existing TB, malaria etc.

Our lockdown protects us, but in a globalised world, it protects people everywhere by reducing global spread.

@ TimeForChange123 we are up north and they still think we are peaking. But agree, they need to plan the way out. Biggest issue I can see is that all the anaesthetists have being pulled in to be intensivists on ICU and as we will continue to have high numbers of very ill patients coming in over the next few weeks (just not peak numbers), it’s how we can start to claw them back to monitor the patients in operations.

My DH is an anaesthetist pulled into ITU since this began. They are currently working on a de-escalation plan to be implemented in two weeks time. I’m not sure how that will affect elective surgery. Their ITU cases are falling steadily so I’m assuming they’ll be freeing up the theatre space, but you would want to see if there was a second peak before dismantling, I’d think?

I have no idea how they would ever have staffed the nightingales.