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Thank heavens I don't live in the USA

218 replies

Casino218 · 19/04/2020 14:14

Protesting against the lockdown! What is wrong with them? Apparently they are finding it too hard!

OP posts:
OutOntheTilez · 19/04/2020 19:53

Yes, @Puzzledandpissedoff, thank you.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/04/2020 20:04

You're very welcome, MissConduct and OutOntheTilez, but actually there's no thanks due. America makes mistakes like everywhere else, but nobody with sense slates an entire nation on the back of the "understanding" gained through a Disney holiday and a few trashy press articles

I don't fully understand it all either, despite spending months there each year, but at least I don't leap to my keyboard every time the place is mentioned to insist how awful it is

TeaSoakedDisasterMagnet · 19/04/2020 20:07

I’m not bashing the USA but I’ve not seen any information about the extra $600 before. Apologies for not reading more information before coming to the thread.

I still firmly believe that people rioting would have less reason to do so were there more stability across the nation in terms of everyone having the same basic healthcare etc.

Feel free to continue having a pop at us brits though too, nothing like a dash of hypocrisy to really round off a thread.

WhyCantIThinkOfAGoodOne · 19/04/2020 21:29

When I lived in America I met some wonderful people. I have family there (who now consider themselves as Americans) who I love. There are certain aspects of the culture I admire but for the most part it's not somewhere I would ever choose to bring up kids - because it's not a society that looks after all of the people living there. I couldn't be happy living somewhere where healthcare isn't available to everyone. There was definitely more of a preoccupation with money than elsewhere (to be fair the UK is almost as bad recently).

YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer · 19/04/2020 21:31

@teasoakeddisastermagnet

If you read all my posts I explained how at a point when I had no insurance I was still able to have my gall bladder removed and I was charged nothing. I agree that our system is not perfect, far from it, but there are parts that I think are better then your system. As for the "Riots" perhaps that word has a different meaning in our two countries. There were no riots here. There have be protests, but a protest is not the same thing as a riot. Where were people rioting, because I missed that in the news.

MissConductUS · 19/04/2020 21:50

I’m not bashing the USA

Of course you weren't, not in the slightest.

Feel free to continue having a pop at us brits though too

No thanks, I'd never make poorly informed criticisms of a diverse and complex nation and its people. That would be rude and uncivilized.

DotForShort · 19/04/2020 22:24

Many US citizens (me included) support a system of universal health care. If Biden is elected (fingers tightly crossed that he will be, though he is far from my ideal candidate), I hope he spearheads a campaign for a variation of Sanders' Medicare for All plan.

I have no issue at all with reasonable criticism of the US. In fact, I am more than willing to participate in the criticism. (How much time have you got?) However, I usually avoid MN threads that deal with the US, because so many Mumsnetters delight in repeating ignorant, lazy, and offensive stereotypes. This thread, alas, follows the usual pattern, though it's nice to see that there are a few posters who can debate the issues without resorting to xenophobia.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/04/2020 22:56

I explained how at a point when I had no insurance I was still able to have my gall bladder removed and I was charged nothing

Yes you did, but it will have been skipped over - or perhaps even disbelieved - because it doesn't suit the narrative of "folks dying in the street because they lack health care"

It's almost as if county hospitals and Medicaid don't exist, but then why let the facts get in the way of a good stereotype?

Bouledeneige · 20/04/2020 00:55

Severe unemployment and poverty and very poor welfare support.

A lot of very (sadly) ignorant people who are fed all sorts of lies and conspiracy theories by right wing media and their demented President.

DroppedBoxxedRuth · 20/04/2020 01:32

Just to throw another side in, we left London 18 months ago to come back to Aus and I'm so glad.

Dh and I have said several times we're glad to be out of the UK as BoJo did a terrible job of trying to protect his citizens.

But the US is a whole other world of fuck-ups and the fact that a clearly unstable person is the president there, and apparently admired by enough people to be voted in in the first place, and now clearly fucking over the country in order to boost his re-election chances is mind blowing.

theschoolonthehill · 20/04/2020 02:32

The thinking behind the title of this thread is shared by many people about the UK too.

sossujunmash · 20/04/2020 09:42

I think that personal freedoms are vital ordinarily, but you can see from MN posts alone that a lot of people don't understand how the virus spreads, why there was lockdown in the first place and when and how it can be phased out, the extraordinarily dire situations within hospitals, and for that reason no, you cannot have everyone managing their own risks at the moment.

Japan - as I understand it (I haven't looked into it carefully and am just going on the news release from last night) the people there have not managed the risk in the way advised and the hospitals are now in crisis.

Some people in the population not only would be capable of managing risks but also would have more foresight and better judgement than the people in authority - such as the poster above who presented reasoned arguments about how judgement is lacking in some states in the US - but as those people are not in authority, then they need to also have foresight to realise than many of the people around them are NOT capable of managing the risk. And therefore accept the status quo in the short term to prevent exponential growth. Or get themselves elected.

TeaSoakedDisasterMagnet · 20/04/2020 10:03

@Puzzledandpissedoff I didn’t say anything about people dying in the street for lack of healthcare. Ridiculous hyperbole.

@YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer yes you did say you’d managed to access good healthcare for your gallbladder. Seems risky though having to hope that the hospital you end up in has some sort of fund for those without insurance. What if they’d rejected you as a candidate for the fund? What would you have done then? It’s a very precarious situation to be in when your health is at risk.

I don’t believe I’m perpetuating stereotypes at all. Humans thrive on stability. From what I can see of the USA situation, people have had their stability taken away in the form of their employment, and rightly so many want to get back to work. But can you really not see how knowing that there is social welfare available that meets your needs and includes free at access healthcare would massively help people to feel more stable and thus riots would be the preserve of the far right/bonkers people? Rather than normal, scared Americans having to go out and riot?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/04/2020 10:14

I didn’t say anything about people dying in the street for lack of healthcare

I didn't say you did, TeaSoaked; it was a comment based on the overall attitude to the US so often seen on MN, quoting an analogy which others have used

feelingverylazytoday · 20/04/2020 10:24

How are those people flocking onto the beaches in Florida managing any risk?
There's very little risk of transmission in the open air, as long as social distancing is observed. Nearly all transmission occurs in enclosed spaces, especially if poorly ventilated.
Any risk needs to be offset by the benefits of exercising in the open air, both physical and mental. That's probably why our government has specified that exercising outdoors is allowed, and that parks should be kept open for that purpose.

VenusOfWillendorf · 20/04/2020 10:32

The US don't have a furlough scheme like the UK and doesn't have an NHS like the UK.
For thousands, it's go to work or go bankrupt, and you can't blame people for wanting to protect their families over people they don't know. You can't ask people to protect and save a Health system that they are not a part of.

I don't think the protests are right - but I don't think they are difficult to understand either. It's easy to criticise when you have a safety net.
There's quite a difference between getting 600 USD a month and up to 2500 pounds a month.

If the UK government announced this evening that they were extending the lock-down for another month, but scrapping the furlough scheme, you can bet there'd be protests - maybe not marching on the streets, but certainly quietly going back to work. People would not stay at home and watch their homes being repossessed and family run out of food to protect their neighbors, if they thought they had an alternative.

WhyCantIThinkOfAGoodOne · 20/04/2020 10:34

@ DotForShort

I think the confusion for a lot of us Brits is just how huge and culturally varied the US is. They see a few gun toating extremists who oppose any social care at all and assume that's the majority view.

chicken2015 · 20/04/2020 10:39

Doesnt the US not have much social care, no real maternity pay, not much hoilday pay, no universal health care, it is the majority view or else it would have happended by now

Bouledeneige · 20/04/2020 10:43

I'm sorry the Americans on this thread are disappointed by 'misinformation' posted here. I know that the quality of healthcare in the US is high if its funded from insurance. But for those that cannot afford health insurance and are eligibile there is Medicaid. But some people do not qualify for Medicaid dependent on the state in which you live:
'Medicaid does not provide medical assistance to all people with low income and low resources. The Affordable Care Act of 2012 gave states the option to expand their Medicaid coverage. In the states that did not expand their programs, several at-risk groups are not eligible for Medicaid.
These include:
Adults over 21 years who do not have children and are pregnant or have a disability.
Working parents with incomes below 44% of the FPL
Legal immigrants in their first 5 years of living in the U.S.'

In fact, Trump and many right wing political leaders have been arguing against 'Obamacare' and extended healthcare coverage for the poorest members of society. Fighting tooth and nail to get extensions of healthcare eligibility removed.

You haven't really provided alternative explanations for the fact that you have thousands of people protesting, people toting assault rifles and military gear around State capital buildings, right wing speakers like Alex Jones whipping up the crowds and a President encouraging civil disobedience against democratically elected state leaders.

I've never been to Disneyland. I have lived in a red neck state where there were regular KKK rallies and people openly carrying firearms in the streets and their pickup trucks. Of course there is a balancing decision to be made between people's liberty and death and right now the US is heading the leader board on the latter. It has the highest number of Covid deaths for any country, and infection rates are not dependent on the size of the population but on human to human social contact.

Many people are railing against being locked down at home because there is very poor welfare provision in the US. Sadly what is known so far about this deadly infection is that it is the poorest people and those from ethnic minorities who will suffer most. The US is one of, if not the, most unequal nation on earth and those economic inequalities will be reflected in the health inequalities about who lives and dies. So when you say American people are very good at managing risk, I imagine you mean American people are very well capable of accepting inequality - and accepting the death and suffering of others. But it doesn't really matter whether those people who are protesting are waving guns and American flags in the air many are now likely to be infected.

And when you get offended by criticism of the US on these boards please note that there are also plenty of boards on Mumsnet criticising the decisions and policies of our own government and other government's too. It is healthy to challenge and question the actions of the executive and hold them to account. Not as healthy, in my view, to have the Head of State undermining elected State Governors encouraging insurrection and people taking to the streets with guns. One of the top benefits of lockdown? The US had the first month (in March) in 18 years without any school shootings.

WhyCantIThinkOfAGoodOne · 20/04/2020 10:44

@ chicken2015

Well actually a majority of Americans didn't vote for Trump but yes sufficient Americans are happy to accept a situation where people aren't guaranteed basic essentials which is something I hate about America.

I think though it's almost a slightly self defeating problem. When people live in a hyper capitalist society they become so anxious about providing the best for their kids and family that they become resentful of giving away too much to anyone else. It feels like a zero sum game to them - if your kids have a decent education they might take my kid's job. etc. When I lived in Germany things were so much more relaxed. Nobody felt anxious about not having necessities and there was much more of an acceptance that a society in which everyone is taken care of benefits us all.

WhyCantIThinkOfAGoodOne · 20/04/2020 10:45

Still though I don't think the majority of Americans are represented by ultra conservative gun toating idiots who deliberately have rallies duing a global pandemic.

chicken2015 · 20/04/2020 10:52

I posted this earlier in thread and wondered if this was why there is such an issue with social care, or the mentally of Americans and why a safety net isn't there, like in UK
i don't believe they want universal healthcare because they would have to want to use their taxes on the poorer communities and if the culture is all about bettering your self (american dream etc) then i guess in their eyes, the poorer people have done something to effect their status and if they had worked harder they wouldnt be poor. So why should they support them.

chicken2015 · 20/04/2020 10:52

I also dont believe its the majority of Americans who r ultra conservative gun toating idiots , however they r a problem

chicken2015 · 20/04/2020 10:54

From an outsider it just looks like a very selfish attitude to have

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/04/2020 12:31

The US don't have a furlough scheme like the UK

www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/coronavirus-unemployment-benefits-here-s-who-qualifies-how-much-they-n1169846

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