Thank heavens I don't live in the USA

[Casino218]

Protesting against the lockdown! What is wrong with them? Apparently they are finding it too hard!

It is a very precarious balancing act between the needs of the economy and the need to control the pandemia, and people need to feel that they have good leaders who are doing the best they can to properly balance those two elements. And in every country there are people who do not trust their leaders.

I live in Mexico where it is particularly difficult, but fortunately I feel able to trust our president and the epidemiologist he has put in charge to do their level best to square the conundrum.

Personally I wouldn't feel able to trust Trump or Johnson, but to each their own.

Haven't RTT

I Don't blame them for protesting, the whole situation is an absolute farce, anyone with a functioning, questioning brain can see these lockdowns are going to cause way more harm than good in the intermediate and longer term for far more people.

I'm sure they're glad you don't live there too.

And you don't think that similar protests will soon begin to occur here in the UK? It's only a matter of time

I very much doubt it. The people protesting tend to be the redneck right wing who aren't over-blessed with brains. For a valid comparison, look at the way rabid Brexiteers confidently predicted mass rioting if Brexit didn't go through on its initial projected dates: in the event, they barely managed to scrape together two men and a dog.

I think what baffles many is the idea that if you’re not in work you don’t get healthcare and social care help is harder to access. It ties all of the problems together; no job = no way to pay rent less ways of accessing healthy food = eventual health problems that you can’t get help with because no job = no healthcare. Or low paid job without healthcare insurance means you have to rely on a lower standard of healthcare.

In the countries with social care and welfare then the problems are more separated. Even if you’re unemployed you know you’ll still get good healthcare. It seems more of a gamble in the USA and that’s baffling and frightening to those of us who don’t live with that system.

For those of you saying you get nothing but first class medical care, I’m assuming you have excellent insurance. But what about all of those people who, through birth or circumstance, don’t get access to or can’t afford the excellent insurance? Do they also not deserve the good healthcare? Do they also deserve not to have their health tied directly to their employment opportunities?

And if it was easier to have your problems separated out and dealt with without the vicious cycle wouldn’t it be easier to know it’s ok to follow the guidelines for a few weeks until the world can get a solid response together to help beat the virus worldwide?

I said to dh the other day that I suspect there’ll be more injuries too - people taking up exercise (cycling and running) could lead to accidents.

Bizarre idea, given that the potential for both traffic accidents and industrial and work-related injuries has plummeted. To say nothing of all the people with heart and breathing conditions who are benefiting from the lack of pollution.

I’m always curious why anyone cares what we do and how we live our lives?

Because no man is an island and all that. Saltines, when you read about, say, countries where cholera and malaria are rife leading to horrendous death rates, do you say "None of my business how they live their lives" and turn the page? Strangely enough, I would be quite sad if the folly of protesters leads to a big upturn in American deaths.

@JudyCoolibar

Do tell me more from your vast knowledge about the US protesters. I’m serious, I’m really interested in your opinion and the facts that those opinions are based on.

I think we make the mistake of thinking that because we speak the same language then we have a similar social structure and culture. We clearly don't which is why some of the things we're seeing seem so bizarre to us.

I do think that this is showing Trump's weakness as a political leader.

@TeaSoakedDisasterMagnet

I'm all for Universal Health Care and vote accordingly. We need it, badly. What I take issue with is people claiming our hospitals are third rate. Someone posted here that they are afraid to vacation here because they will be shot (I'm 52 years old, in my whole life I've never known anyone who has been shot) and taken to a lousy hospital. We have amazing hospitals, hospitals people from all over the world come here to get health care from. Are there people that can not get the proper health care here? ABSOLUTELY. And we need to fix that, but anyone with Covid 19 in this country will not be billed for their health care. Like people in the US make assumptions about the kind of care people get in socialized medicine (the think you have to wait a long time to see a dr, and that its not always good when you do get it) people in the UK should not make assumptions about what its like here. Unless you live them, you dont really know what is real and what is not.

@YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer looking down on Americans is one of Mumsnet’s favourite pastimes. It’s fairly embarrassing really.

I think the reason Americans fear universal healthcare is because they don't want the government making decisions about what care they are allowed (or not allowed). I am horrified that in the UK women cannot get screened for cervical cancer until they are 26 years. This has lead to many many young women dying needlessly because they couldn't get screened. My mom has to spend ages on the phone to get an appointment with her GP and then she is only allowed a 10 min visit and only allowed to discusss one ailment. This is the sort of thing that Americans hear about regarding universal healthcare

@molly70 I agree. People hear about having to wait a long time just to get seen by a doctor. I can call and be seen here, even same day if needed (before covid, now things are different). I have a British friend who was having bad tooth pain and had to wait a couple weeks to get seen by a dentist. That would not happen where I live. And true story, I did not have insurance at one point in my life. I needed to have my gall bladder removed. The hospital had a Fund that covered all my costs. I was charged nothing from the Doctor or the Hospital. So there are ways people without insurance can be helped in this country. I cant believe women in the UK can not get screened for Cervical Cancer, that sounds barbaric to me.

I mean women under 26 obviously

I'm from America. I think the federal government should be working with individual states to make lockdowns more workable (provide a better safety net.) UK is doing a bit better but in some cases unless you are furloughed many people are in dire straights here too.

The people protesting and blocking a hospital in Michigan in particular (a harder hit state) are idiots for the way they have gone about it. Trump is insane and instigating riots which is honestly a whole other topic.

Obviously lockdown measures are necessary but they should be implemented in a smarter way. States with lower cases should be gradually introducing them as needed. It is an emerging and unprecedented situation though, and we have a bunch of rubes running things federally.

Antibody tests are needed very badly. Hopefully the immunity lasts a year or more and the tests will let people get back to their lives and save world economies.

Being from New Jersey I won't agree that the UK has better healthcare other than the fact that it is free at the point of use. I had insurance at the jobs I worked and got all tests and referals I needed. When I was unemployed Medicaid took care of me for that time. Here it is like pulling teeth to have issues looked into because they are so worried about saving money. I personally would rather have debt than sacrifice my health or life though. In America I can make that choice for myself, here some strangers will make that choice for me. It must be said that this is anecdotal based on the state I personally am from and where I live now in the UK. (Tories are only slightly better than Republicans in my view. I imagine I would rate the NHS better if it wasn't for them.)

"How are those people flocking onto the beaches in Florida managing any risk? And if they are prepared to take the risk, how do they guarantee no spreading it to other people who don't want to, not least health workers.?"

I happen to work within walking distance of Clearwater Beach, and I remember when the aerial photos hit international news. Immediately, beach goers voluntarily fell into line, going so far as to draw circles around their blankets and towels, to maintain safe distances. People were being voluntarily safe and protecting themselves and others! But, those aerials never made the news. Our local sheriff showed the footage to the local commission, and the commissioners STILL voted to close the beach. The reason Americans protest is because our country was founded on personal freedom, and the law is not suspended because of illness. We choose those people to represent us, and they are on a power trip, which is expressly prohibited and we will undoubtably see many lawsuits against lawless officials.

I am surprised that with the amount of money the fed is throwing around, they can't provide a bit more support for the poor. A country as rich as the USA should be able to support a lockdown. I mean, if India can? But hey, each to their own.

My big worry is that if the USA goes back to quickly, and there is a second wave, it won't be apparent until mid may. It'll be the end of may before it's agreed to lock down again, and the lock down will need to be for two months to ensure no third wave.
Now, that means it will be until aug until the US will be in a position to start trying to close lockdown again.

This would crater the markets and the economy. The global economy. Not just the USA. We could be talking global depression here. If you think you have it bad now, you can't imagine how bad it will be if you have a second wave.

@YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer If you read my post a bit more carefully, I did say that there is obviously some great healthcare available in the USA. What doesn’t make sense to me, and I would imagine to anyone else living in a country with social welfare and universal healthcare, is that your amazing healthcare is not available to everyone in your country. It’s all very well not charging people for Covid 19 healthcare, but what about all of the possible after effects that we’re not sure about yet. Will years of possible physio therapy be included or what about a possible life long lung weakness that requires inhalers, as can happen after other pneumonia illnesses? Is that all included or is it only up to the point they are in intensive care on a ventilator they won’t be billed for?

Perhaps the people protesting are so desperate to keep working because they know that there will be other health bills in the future and they can’t risk their children not having food if they go bankrupt over other bills from long term effects of covid 19? The cognitive dissonance of that is incredible.

I’m glad I don’t have to choose between treatment and my kids having food and a roof over their heads after that treatment.

The other thing that amazes me is that some Americans seem to think it’s ok to accept the $1200 “stimulus” cheque but can’t see that it’s ridiculous. If social welfare was properly set up in the USA and followed along the lines of other countries with social welfare like Canada, Germany and yes even the UK then they would be receiving more like 70-85% of their monthly paycheque and there would be no need to riot to go back to work because you would know you were more financially stable and could go back to work when it was safer rather than risking your life or those of the people around you.

Why are folk insisting the US is offering no support, when a federal programme's being rolled out to pay furloughed and laid off workers an extra $600 per week for four months?

When hammering away on yet another US bashing thread, why not at least try to get the facts right?

there would be no need to riot to go back to work because you would know you were more financially stable and could go back to work when it was safer rather than risking your life or those of the people around you.

The US is also subsidizing payrolls to keep people employed via forgivable loans. Unemployment payments have also been greatly increased for those who do lose their jobs.

If you're not familiar with what's happening here perhaps it's better not to pass judgement on it.

And if we don't go back to work at some point we'll all starve. The point of the lock down was never to make things safe, it was to lower the case rates to prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed as happened in Italy. We'll all be exposed to the virus eventually.

There is social welfare though in the form of unemployment benefit (same thing, different name). In my state it has been increased by $600 per month since covid19 hit.

If you're not familiar with what's happening here perhaps it's better not to pass judgement on it

A vain hope on MN I'm afraid; the extent of anti-Americanism is sometimes downright embarrassing

Don't worry though; we don't all think about you that way

When hammering away on yet another US bashing thread, why not at least try to get the facts right?

Why worry about those pesky facts when the whole point is simply to bash the U.S. no matter what?

I very much doubt it. The people protesting tend to be the redneck right wing who aren't over-blessed with brains. For a valid comparison, look at the way rabid Brexiteers confidently predicted mass rioting if Brexit didn't go through on its initial projected dates: in the event, they barely managed to scrape together two men and a dog

Why do you assume they are 'right-wing rednecks who aren't over-blessed with brains'? Aside from that I don't think you can compare this situation to Brexit at all. You're not aware of what is going on in the wider spectrum. Mumsnet is not a good indicator of the general consensus regarding this matter.

Don't worry though; we don't all think about you that way

Good to know @Puzzledandpissedoff

I've actually made some lovely friends here on MN. I have to wonder about the psychology behind those who need to obsessively denigrate and criticize the US. They are perfectly free not to visit or immigrate here.