Worried About Coronavirus- thread 38

[TheStarryNight]

New thread

I think some hospitals being quiet reflects a wider issue- not that we should be ending lockdown or that covid is no longer a problem- it’s clear we’ll have a problematic second wave if we end it anytime soon. It’s more that there’s an issue- one with awful long term consequences- with how little other stuff being done. And also a massive concern people are not attending A&E that should be.

I was saying on the other thread how to avoid (or drastically limit the damage) a second wave. We need to remember more haste, less speed. Keep this first lockdown for longer. In the longer-term this approach causes the least amount of damage. Less deaths, less (long-term) economic damage.

Hospitals being empty. Yes too many people are being denied emergency treatment (Covid and non Covid both) until a very late stage - too late for many. That should not be happening but suggests that possibly we are short of something. Be it beds, staff, oxygen, drugs, or whatever else. There's also the fear that an apparent non-Covid patient could unknowingly have it and it then spreads throughout the until then "clean" ward.

It's not a case of deaths possibly peaking so it's all ok and we can immediately go back to normal. There's increasing evidence the incubation period can be longer than two weeks. It's still fairly widespread in the community especially as we have a less strict lockdown than many other countries. As for the non essential flights still arriving daily with no checks or quarantine. That makes lockdown in airport cities especially London rather ineffective.

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking I’ve had a similar experience elsewhere. The whole of the southwest is experiencing lower numbers . I’m a nurse here but I’m on maternity leave and my friend is one of the hospital managers but I was still accused of lying. To what end I have no idea?! It’s clear other parts of the country have suffered very differently doesn’t make the picture here irrelevant. And also who knows what to come?

Oh. Or people are taking a lot less than 3 weeks to die. That would explain it to, I think...

Yes well, that's the case in many patients...

Why are the numbers being released so late? Has the reporting changed and I've missed it?

Worldometers is reporting 828 deaths.

*I would be fucking furious if I had been isolating then had to go to A&E due to an accident and someone wandered in with CV! There are likely to be vulnerable and elderly people in A&E, you’re a selfish twat if you even think about going there with CV symptoms(

Interesting way to talk about people who may be struggling to breathe and be desperate for care to, you know, survive. In fact they may be elderly or vulnerable themselves, but I don't think being young and healthy should preclude you from going to A&E if you think you might otherwise die.

Thank you. I always wonder why they are quicker than the gov.uk site.

Will people also stop going on about the flights. They are bringing in freight and British citizens who've been stranded abroad. There may be no official border closure but nobody is coming in for the sake of it. And once here they will have to comply with the lockdown anyway.

Puffin I agree with you but that poster is oddly against CV19 patients receiving timely critical care.

Also agree on flights. That ship has sailed. Maybe on the other side when we get there.

The flights are relevant to whether or not lockdown works, and how bad any second wave might be.

Other countries have implemented much tighter border controls. Depending on the country, residents stuck abroad either have to lump it and wait it out or go into quarantine on their return. Freight, military, and medical are generally continuing (as they should) but subject to stricter checks in some countries. With quarantine if necessary.

Depending on the country, residents stuck abroad either have to lump it and wait it out or go into quarantine on their return

I remember John Ashton saying similar to this right at the beginning of the pandemic starting to spread from China. I agreed with him then and still do. He wasn’t talking about short term holidaymakers but those with longer term interests in affected countries.

Oooh Hancock is discomfited by the question over the EU PPE.

amp.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3080771/coronavirus-mutations-affect-deadliness-strains-chinese-study
Coronavirus’s ability to mutate has been vastly underestimated, and mutations affect deadliness of strains, Chinese study finds
The most aggressive strains of Sars-CoV-2 could generate 270 times as much viral load as the least potent type
New York may have a deadlier strain imported from Europe, compared to less deadly viruses elsewhere in the United States

www.itv.com/news/2020-04-21/itv-news-exclusive-carers-being-asked-to-move-into-care-homes-to-tackle-covid-19-coronavirus/
Exclusive: Carers asked to move into care homes for 'weeks' for no extra pay to tackle coronavirus

Some carers are being asked to move into the care home they work in to help deal with cases of coronavirus, ITV News has learned.

A form circulated by the provider Bondcare asks staff to "join a crisis team", which requires them not to leave the care home for days or even weeks.

Carers are told the arrangements mean they must:

"Remain on site, without leaving"
"Sleep on site in an unoccupied room"
"Have a pre-packed bag ready" for if they're required to stay
The form also makes it clear that staff will receive no extra pay for the risk and commitment they are undertaking.

It states that carers "will be paid for the direct care and support hours" worked, but "unpaid for the hours" not spent working while staying at the home.

Carers are told they would only be allowed to leave if they can provide cover during their absence.

While the form asks workers to confirm that they have not been put under any pressure to agree to the terms, ITV News understands some feel under pressure to sign it.

DUTCH PM RUTTE: EXTENDS BAN ON LARGE PUBLIC EVENTS UNTIL SEPTEMBER 1, ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS MAY OPEN IN MAY

6 of my care staff over the last four weeks moved into to the home for 7 day periods (not the same 7 days). But I gave them the option to and paid them over Double their regular pay, plus 14 paid days off (not out of their annual leave allowance) after their 7 day stint. It would be horrendous to be forced to do this and not even paid any extra.

Murray there’s no employment law that could allow this to be forced on people, I hope? 😱

primary schools in nl will open after the may holidays, but only part time.
wrap around care to be open full time for pre-school and primary age children and special needs provision.

secondary schools remain closed and examinations have been cancelled.

www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html?smid=fb-share

Another persuasive argument about hypoxia and early treatment. Let's hope this is true as it feels like it could lead to less critical cases. I'm def glad for having purchased an oximeter a few weeks back

I don't think being young and healthy should preclude you from going to A&E if you think you might otherwise die
There are services for Covid treatment and separate services for non-Covid treatment. A&E is a non-Covid service, and if Covid patients insist on using it when they’re not supposed to they will prevent non-Covid patients receiving emergency treatment and put their lives at risk.

Are your visits to A&E frequently disturbed by people with Covid turning up and putting your nose out of joint Ezira?

Ezira but what do you expect people needing emergency care for C19 symptoms to do? If people are unable to breathe but can’t get an ambulance or are being turned away by a useless 111 algorithm, and knowing people have died at home, I don’t see what choice they’d have but to turn up at A&E

metro.co.uk/2020/04/21/nhs-worker-suspended-refusing-work-coronavirus-ward-without-proper-ppe-12588473/#share-item-12588748-309