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Original poster

Given Iceland's data surely schools should go back.

292 replies

Floatyboat · 15/04/2020 08:35

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100?query=featured_coronavirus

It appears that kids either don't get it much or their immune system stamps it out so quick the chance of transmission is very low. Iceland has been able to keep schools open and still gets these figures for under 10's.

Clearly some caution/graded opening may be sensible but to continue with the current status quo and all the associated harm is not justified.

Any other conclusions to be drawn from this data?

OP posts:
refraction · 15/04/2020 12:50

In New York of course there are other variables before someone posts just saying there are teachers dying too.

Fifty Department of Education employees have died from the coronavirus, the city announced Monday afternoon following backlash for not releasing the numbers sooner.
As of April 10, 48 school-based employees — 22 paraprofessionals, 21 teachers, two administrators, one facilities staffer, one guidance counselor and one food service staffer have died. Two central office employees have also died.

ChloeDecker · 15/04/2020 13:09

What the OP may refer to as anecdotes, others refer to as experience.

I would like to point out the fact that U.K. schools are currently open (even during the Easter holidays) to keyworker/vulnerable children, most likely with similar numbers overall to say Iceland or Denmark that has been mentioned (with Denmark only opening to very few children but that isn’t as good a headline, eh!?).

These countries (or at least many others) closed completely to children at some point. We never have...

noblegiraffe · 15/04/2020 13:17

refraction there was also that headteacher that died before schools closed. I read about a couple of teaching assistants too on twitter. I’m sure there will be more cases among wider school staff.

Very sad. And worrying that because it’s not being reported people are assuming it’s not happening.

refraction · 15/04/2020 13:18

Very sad. And worrying that because it’s not being reported people are assuming it’s not happening.

Exactly

FlamingoAndJohn · 15/04/2020 13:34

But it’s not about teachers dying from it. It’s about the teacher not getting it, being asymptomatic, and then spreading it to other people on their journey home.

If it’s ok to open schools then it’s ok to open cafes and restaurants.

noblegiraffe · 15/04/2020 13:38

But it’s not about teachers dying from it.

Why not? Other professions that are in situations where social distancing is impossible are being told to use PPE.

anothernotherone · 15/04/2020 13:38

refraction two of those are the same teacher, who was obese (not judging, so am I and I'm still working in adult social care with people who it just isn't possible to keep a distance from and a colleague who is flouting the rules because she lives alone and gets bored, and then doesn't keep her mask on Angry A school would be similar dependent upon age and ability of students).

ittooshallpass · 15/04/2020 13:43

I'm shocked that people are so keen to get schools reopened.

Reasons given:
Kids are bored to tears
Kids feel socially isolated
I'm paying school fees
Effectiveness seems inconclusive
Concerned about missed education
Kids are losing levels of fitness
My ability to home school is limited

Reasons for them to stay closed?
We're in the middle of a global pandemic that no one knows how to control.

Who CARES about boredom, fitness levels and 'missed' education (which isn't missed because no one is getting it!)

We need to be 100% sure that it is safe for everyone before we push schools to reopen.

We've had 3 weeks, just THREE weeks of this. The death rate is rising... we were told there'd be 20k deaths if we were lucky...

I just cannot believe 'boredom' is a reason given for reopening schools.

This is one of the most horrific threads I've ever read.

ChloeDecker · 15/04/2020 13:44

I'm still working in adult social care with people who it just isn't possible to keep a distance from and a colleague who is flouting the rules because she lives alone and gets bored, and then doesn't keep her mask on

So do you get masks or relevant PPE then? School staff don’t at all (even currently with the schools open to children)

thesedaysarescary · 15/04/2020 13:53

The schools opening is surely something that will be in the last phase of coming out of lockdown? How is the data from other countries about children not being the driving force of the spread of the virus be in any way applicable. All these countries closed the schools very early in the beginning of the crisis.
Iceland has zero correlation to schooling in the U.K. so we can not compare them surely?
We have not tested children in the U.K. so how can any data be collated if there is none available?

anothernotherone · 15/04/2020 13:54

ChloeDecker we have seen fabric masks made in our on-site workshop. We are only allowed to open the proper PPE if we have a confirmed case - if we do we nurse them in house. We have emergency bundles of proper PPE but only enough for a few days.

Everyone wears sewn masks - they protect the residents and colleagues from the wearer. They don't protect the wearer.

anothernotherone · 15/04/2020 13:55

Sewn not seen

MrsWhites · 15/04/2020 14:00

Regardless of whether children can spread the disease or not, imagine saying to people ‘it is safe for your children to go to school but it’s not safe to go a restaurant/day out at the weekend’!

Some people are finding it hard to social distance as it is according the the media and police reports! Lockdown needs to be lifted very slowly, opening schools will do the opposite!

refraction · 15/04/2020 14:06

Ittoshallpas

There are about 6 threads like this sadly.

BertNErnie · 15/04/2020 14:07

This is a genuine question - would any of those posters who think schools should reopen now be prepared to go into schools and teach there for a day/week/term?

I just wonder if the reality of being in a school setting would change some opinions.

We have over 900 pupils. All of primary age so social distancing is a real difficulty (we have 220+ 3-5 year olds alone) and even if the majority of pupils are not super spreaders, I'm sure there will be a few who are in that 900+.

Would you be prepared to go in on that basis? Would you be prepared to potentially take the virus home and infect your loved ones? Or be poorly with it yourself?

I'd hope if I caught it I would be one of those who do not display symptoms or get it mildly but there's really no telling right now.

I get the point that at any moment we can drop down dead or be run over by a car or catch another disease etc but the fact that coronavirus is here with currently no treatment options and the fact that we don't have sufficient contact tracing and testing in place means we are more likely to be dicing with the potential of being very seriously ill.

I've been into school to look after key worker children but social distancing has been possible with so little of them in.

If we had more testing capacity, more contact tracing and the rate of infections remained low I would be happy to go back and take my chances. As it currently is now? With the daily deaths today for England showing at 651?

Not a chance.

FlamingoAndJohn · 15/04/2020 14:08

Exactly MrsWhites.
How could you say that children can go to school with the lack of social distancing but you can pick up a drive through McDonalds on the way home.

GoldenOmber · 15/04/2020 14:10

We need to be 100% sure that it is safe for everyone before we push schools to reopen.

But realistically, it isn’t going to be 100% safe until there’s a vaccine everyone can get and that could be well over a year away.

We do need to make sure it’s as safe as we can make it, and that’s why it really really matters what the government’s post-lockdown strategy is. I don’t think we should reopen schools now. But we will have to reopen them at SOME point before everyone’s vaccinated and it’s not ‘horrific’ for people to want that to happen when it’s reasonably safe to do so.

GoldenOmber · 15/04/2020 14:12

Plenty of countries are reopening schools and nurseries to some degree before reopening cafes and restaurants, so clearly it is possible.

BertNErnie · 15/04/2020 14:17

@GoldenOmber now? If be interested to know which countries are doing that so early on in this pandemic.

Appuskidu · 15/04/2020 14:17

Plenty of countries are reopening schools and nurseries to some degree before reopening cafes and restaurants, so clearly it is possible

Can you expand on these ‘plenty of countries’?

BertNErnie · 15/04/2020 14:17

As in opening schools and nurseries

BertNErnie · 15/04/2020 14:19

I am aware of Denmark but that's all.

anothernotherone · 15/04/2020 14:24

I don't think schools should open but lots of us are at the same risk as teachers would be and have been going to work throughout because the places we work cannot ever close. I used to teach secondary. My worry is children as a vector streaming the virus through the tangled web of their social networks. Teachers are vectors too. I think teacher's lives and teacher's families are exactly as valuable as mine but not more so.

Willyoujustbequiet · 15/04/2020 14:25

Im disgusted by some reasons given for reopening.

Im also at a loss as to how stupid some people are. Its not that most kids get it mildly its that they infect others. What about a vulnerable single parent who then dies of it because a mildy affected child brought it home? Kids are then forced into the social care system.

Comparing to to Chicken Pox etc. is ludicrous.