Given Iceland's data surely schools should go back.

[Floatyboat]

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100?query=featured_coronavirus

It appears that kids either don't get it much or their immune system stamps it out so quick the chance of transmission is very low. Iceland has been able to keep schools open and still gets these figures for under 10's.

Clearly some caution/graded opening may be sensible but to continue with the current status quo and all the associated harm is not justified.

Any other conclusions to be drawn from this data?

Schools opening would be the end of social distancing.

We are not in Iceland, we are in the uk. More populated in some built up areas. I live in the south east, second area mostly at risk from coronavirus. My children, me and all school staff would be at great risk should the school re open.

‘ Why is everyone so desperate to get rid of their children? It's only been 3 week’

Perhaps their DC are year 10 or 12? The disruption to those in GCSE and A level courses is a concern.

And wanting your DC of any age to attend school during term time isn’t really a wish to be rid of them.

Also class numbers here are up to 30 children packed into a class, no room for social distancing at all

Presumably those adults now travelling on buses though, along with drivers, will have to travel on packed buses again? It's standing room only on ours once kids get on in rush hour.

I will add that a number of students in the school I was doing supply for got ill soon after half term, and so did a number of staff following suit. I mean, very ill. So unless you really know what you're talking about, and can compare Icelandic classroom to a UK one in terms of precautionary measures they may have taken, the study is of little relevance.

Both of my DCs' GCSEs are impacted by the way, so I do need them back at school, but only if it's safe.

I agree OP.

I think we’ll also see more research showing this. I think some small studies in China showed the same. That for this virus children aren’t quite the super spreaders they are in other illnesses such as flu.

Again, read the paper. The density of Iceland is not relevant. Icelandic children appear to have much less virus than Icelandic adults. Classrooms may well be one the most crowded rooms in Iceland.

Is there good quality evidence of high transmission of covid19 within primary schools or nurseries? That would be informative than personal anecdotes or ad hominem attacks.

I don’t think schools should open now but with the research that is coming out plus the impact the school closures are having on the economy I think they may well open after May half term. So that will be in another 6 weeks or so.

It’s not just teachers. Many site staff are older part-time workers who are vulnerable. Unless you can ensure a high level of cleanliness then you can’t open whole schools. Many students live in homes with vulnerable people - what happens to them?

Opening schools then opens it for more people to be pressured to stop working from home and return to workplaces. So infections will rise again.

There are so many issues to consider.

But we can’t keep children at home indefinitely. We need an exit strategy based on the government listening carefully to the experts.

@shineaflight it's nejm not a newspaper...

Viral load appears to be very important in this disease. This is why healthcare professionals are at more risk. They are dealing with lots of sick people.

If children have very few symptoms then they will not be expressing a large viral load so the risk to adults dealing with them may also be low.

I don’t think there was any evidence of huge spread in any schools before we shut them down. Even though we closed them quite late. Plus we had all the returning ski trips from Italy..

I am head of a large faculty in a huge school. I am working the hardest I ever have - coming up with a plan to award grades fairly to 400 students for two GCSEs, ensuring we are 'teaching' as well as we can, working to support parents with concerns and complaints, working to train my staff remotely in how to teach remotely. And I am also home schooling my 4,9 and 11 year old, as a single parent.

I don't want schools to re-open until I know that my children (the ones in my care and my own) are safe and that my staff are too. I care deeply about people and I don't see why teachers should be regarded as collateral damage - I don't teach to prop up the economy, I teach to shape young people. What exactly are we teaching them here? It plays into this Govian idea that schools are about academics and discipline. How would you like me to keep 32 children apart in the smallest of classrooms, across a site of 2000. How am I going to make sure lessons are covered for the 30% of staff who are not going to be in?

There is a culture of parents giving over all responsibility for the education of their children to teachers - so, so often, I have been met messages: 'what are you going to do about my child's results?', 'they won't read at home - you need to make them', 'they need this result for university - how will you get it for them?'. I really hope that some parents, through spending extensive time with their teenagers are beginning to see that teachers really aren't the problem.

Why isn’t there a busing system in the U.K.? Seems like a great time to establish this kind of system in the U.K. Having grown up in a country with school buses, it seems absurd that the burden of getting kids to school lies with parents (mothers). With social distancing, etc, the need is higher than ever.

There has never been much evidence for closing schools - they were closed due to political pressure not science.

Denmark are reopening their primary schools (and only primary - no mention of secondary schools opening at all). BUT they are limiting class sizes to 10 - as their social gatherings are limited to 10 so they're not expecting schools to have a different rule to the external community. They also have the 2 meter social distancing rule so classes have been set up with one child to a desk, 2 meters between each child. Apparently a number of parents are on Facebook and twitter saying they're not sending their children in to be government lab rats. So feelings are running incredibly high.

Our problem is that social distancing can't be done with classroom sizes of 30. So we will have to find a way of reducing class sizes. If we follow Denmark's stance that means finding 2 extra people for each class in a school. I work, as a support admin person so not a teacher, in a school of 2000 plus children. You don't have to be a maths genius to work out that we don't have enough staff to cover that many children, all in at once, in classes of 10...and we certainly don't have rooms available to do that.

So that could mean staggered education - half days, only certain years allowed into school, or one week in, one week out for children. Whichever way it is, it will be difficult for the teachers to manage and it will impact on parents - there's no getting away from that UNLESS the government just open the schools. In which case they'll have to end social distancing rules.

We'd also have to say packed lunches only - we feed 2000 kids plus staff between 1pm and 1.40pm and you can't social distance then. So parents will have to provide lunches. My school is a hub for key workers and they're doing that at the moment as our catering company is in lockdown.

Btw Denmark's leaders have said that, if (when) the number of cases go up the schools will shut. That could be at very short notice. So they've warned businesses that shutdowns could occur quickly and it will be a similar lockdown to the one they've just come out of. Just because a school opens doesn't mean economies will get back on track - we'll kangaroo like this until a vaccine is found or this herd immunity kicks in I'm afraid.

Why isn’t there a busing system in the U.K.? Huh?

www.gov.uk/free-school-transport

In short:

All children between 5 and 16 qualify for free school transport if they go to their nearest suitable school and live at least:

• 2 miles from the school if they’re under 8
• 3 miles from the school if they’re 8 or older

Lots of secondary schools have buses @HelloToMyKitty

The study you link to quite crucially concludes: The lack of increase in the incidence of infection over time may be due to containment efforts by the Icelandic health care authorities and their nimble response to the outbreak abroad. Testing of exposed persons with symptoms had been carried out for 1 month before the first SARS-CoV-2 case was identified in Iceland. Self-isolation, quarantining, and other social-distancing measures may also have helped to prevent an increase in the infection rate.

So, no, schools shouldn't go back yet.

Why isn’t there a busing system in the U.K.?

Because most children are close enough to walk

Seeing as they just cancelled exams for the summer, my sense is this is being quite well-considered by the DFE (for once) and that adjustments will have to be made for Year 10 and 12 students. Concerns about exam groups are valid because we have come to understand that everything hinges on them. There is so much content being missed, that cannot possible be caught up on. Changes will certainly be announced for Year 10 and 12 in due course.

What happens to those children who are indeed, themselves, on the government vulnerable list???? Are they at home isolated evening further due to being vulnerable while they watch their peers go back to school?? How does this work?? Also for those children who have a vulnerable parent, possibly on cancer treatment....what happens then??
Why are so many keen to get their children back to school?? Is there a reason that I’m missing here??

Why are so many keen to get their children back to school?? Is there a reason that I’m missing here??

Exactly this - I have no idea other.

Icelandic children appear to have much less virus than Icelandic adults.
You mean those adults who are working together in the classroom? DS reception class has 5 staff, nursery has 4, Upper years fewer. Or the catering staff providing lunch? The support staff, minimum 3 in our school office plus the caretaker. And ours is a small school, 220 intake.
Or the parents? 220 pupils is still well over 100 parents doing drop off and pick up, lots of whom then stand around nattering. If you send kids back, social distancing stops and all that grouping resumes.

You could do staged drop off and pick up but in terms of getting parents back to work, kids need to be in full time, parents dropping multiple kids will struggle with that.

I'd guess we don't have many shielded tea hers but it would be conjecture really. At least one pregnant teacher, but likely to be staff with other medical issues in themselves or at home.

School isn't just about children