Given Iceland's data surely schools should go back.

[Floatyboat]

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100?query=featured_coronavirus

It appears that kids either don't get it much or their immune system stamps it out so quick the chance of transmission is very low. Iceland has been able to keep schools open and still gets these figures for under 10's.

Clearly some caution/graded opening may be sensible but to continue with the current status quo and all the associated harm is not justified.

Any other conclusions to be drawn from this data?

@ChloeDecker

Really not following. Are you saying individual examples do help determine nationwide policies? I think epidemiological data is better.

@Davincitoad

Lots of other industries have introduced perfectly sensible alterations to working practice whilst continuing to meet core functions. Is it not worth entertaining the idea that education may also be capable of that?

@Keepdistance

I agree. That story about the nurse I tragic and just underlines the risks. People do not get that viral load is a factor and those working with high volumes of people get sicker and die at a higher rate.

There are over 400,000 teachers. Even a 1% death rate is 4,000 dead. Utterly terrifying.

Not sure you can force staff in without serious PPE and social distancing measures. This must be the same for all jobs that require dealing with large groups of people.

Really not following. Are you saying individual examples do help determine nationwide policies? I think epidemiological data is better.

Meaning you have already made up your mind, hear what you want to hear and selectively respond.
You don’t want to acknowledge UK schools are already open, you don’t want to acknowledge that reports/statistics/research can be taken in different ways or be relevant/irrelevant in different contexts and just seem to be desperate to send your kids back to school no matter what the cost.
If you were open to a lot of what many different posters have added to this thread, with their experiences and information that doesn’t quite fit your stance, then I wouldn’t say you are being disingenuous. However, unfortunately, I would say you are being disingenuous or at least, sticking your fingers in your ear and going ‘la la la’.

@Floatyboat government has said social distance. 34 kids I can fit 8 in my room 2m apart but I would be within 1m of one. Therefore as you seem to think I am in the wrong what is it you suggest I do? Genuinely
Interested as im sick of teachers asking for genuine solutions being labelled as unreasonable because they don’t want to get a disease with potentially unknown long term consequences.

@BelleSausage for some people it appears that figure is fine if the conversations on some of these other threads are anything to go by. We should just ‘suck it up’ apparently

Chloe lots of good points made. Comparing differences between schooling/children's life styles in UK and Iceland is important. The data from other countries is helpful. I understand there are particular challenges for schools, just as there are specific challenges for care homes, supermarkets, factories etc.

I'm aware schools are open. I guess I think we should perhaps make them more open.

Of course research can be taken in different ways and not be translatable to every context but it still has merit and some use.

I posted an article that suggests reassuring news at the end of the day. Surely further evidence children are not super spreaders is good? Why can't people just be pleased.

@davincitoad

As an other post showed vet nurses have to "suck it up". Surely you see teaching as more important for society than vet nursing?

@Floatyboat

Ok, social distancing is a great idea.

How do you socially distance 1800 teenagers in a school designed for 1000? How do you socially distance when the corridors are crammed between lessons and classrooms with 30 desk spaces have 34 students in them?

In our school there aren’t enough classrooms for every teacher. Many of us travel between four or five different classrooms a day.

The logistics of having them all back in and protecting teaching staff in any way is enormous. And the real worry is that schools will only pay it loo service and pressure vulnerable staff to be in and teach as normal with no protection.

But hey, 4,000 staff is not that many in the grand scheme.

To quote a scholar on this world view ‘If they’d rather die they better do it and decrease the surplus population.

Sorry, that should be ‘lip service’

@Floatyboat, how about mentioning the relevant details on that thread, such as social distancing strictly observed, care of one pet at a time? As Chloedecker said, schools are already opening with less safety parameters than that vet, and we are happy to do so.

@bellesausage

Did prison leaders just throw their hands in the air, complain they were overcrowded, and kick out 90% of the prisoners?

Well the government won’t keep the schools shut until a vaccine is found so something will need to be planned.

I had mentioned in another thread that it was positive some research had come out that children weren’t the super spreaders of this disease that we thought they might be. It is good, positive news potentially but people don’t seem to want to hear it.

I expect we’ll see more research coming out soon which can hopefully spread more light on this.

It is good need that kids don't spread it, but I think we knew that. The problem with opening schools, or primary schools at least, is that parents have to take the kids to school so gather in large numbers twice a day. Some smaller primary"s may be able to manage this. Others, especially the large primarys will find if impossible. My local primary has 600 kids.

@Delatron

Good point. I wonder sometimes if people get a little thrill from the hysteria.

Why are parents gathering? We drop and run.

There could be a staggered pick up system? Loads of options to stop parents gathering. Also parents are fully aware they shouldn’t be standing near each other!

We could have some year groups in one day and others another day. Or half days. There are options and we will need to explore these as I’m sorry schools won’t be closed for a year! And until there is a vaccine there will be a risk.

It would explain the shouts for lockdown, then no lockdown.

@Floatyboat it is frustrating.

I read the initial research from China which was suggesting children were not super spreaders of this disease and I thought it was such a positive thing. Obviously more research is needed but hopefully we’ll have that soon.

Wow. Schools have just been compared to prisons.

Schools can be crammed with kids, sent by their parents, even though they don’t have to be there, because prisons have lots of people in them.

Given how appalling and worrying the situation is in prisons at the moment, that’s a monumentally stupid comparison to be making.

Did prison leaders just throw their hands in the air, complain they were overcrowded, and kick out 90% of the prisoners?
Prisons are keeping prisoners locked in cells for extended periods of time, not something we'd want to do with children. Theres a strong argument that more prisoners should be released.

Teachers didn't throw their hands in the air, they followed government orders, I'm not sure why so many people on here think teachers make the rules, we really don't have much autonomy.

My point is other industries have been able to think of solutions and adaptations in the face of challenging circumstances, poor infrastructure and staff sickness. I think considering what a fully reopened but safer school would look like would be helpful.

Prisoners are two to a cell, last time I watched Porridge.

I think considering what a fully reopened but safer school

Those two things are mutually exclusive.

I was in a fully opened school the week before closure and it wasn’t ‘safe’. Even with the best will in the world it wouldn’t be safe. Because safe at the moment involves staying 2m away from everyone else.

Partially opened is the best you can hope for if you want safe.

I've been in school with primary-aged key worker children. We have a maximum of 12 children in a large classroom. Social distancing has been impossible, especially for the younger ones. How do you get kids not to play with one another?

If schools open too soon then my daughter who is teacher will go back in full time. She is living with us and so will bring back anything to my husband who has had pneumonia and might be more vulnerable.

In turn we might give it to my elderly Dad.......

Virus spreads once more.