Why are deaths in care homes and at home still not being reported in England?

[alloutoffucks]

Scotland now report how many people have died in care homes and at home with covid 19. I know there is a delay in being able to report this because of death certificates. But in England we are still not getting these figures.
I suspect a lot of people have died in care homes and at home. Some have been reported in the press like the young twenty year old near where I live found dead at home. But this figure includes anyone terminally ill, frail and with more serious underlying conditions. These people are largely not being admitted to hospital. So they die at home with carers or in a care home. Given these are mainly very vulnerable people. I suspect the mortality rate is high and the number of people who have died is high.
Why are we still not being told how many people?

@cathyandclare That link only has the number of hospital deaths. Yes that is very widely reported.

No that is referring to the ONS data that was released today

It's not hidden.

It's on a different reporting cycle to hospital deaths.

And because it needs to be collated from all the Registrars, and you have 5 days (can be longer sometimes) to register a death, the figures are always slightly behind

You are misunderstanding what the data is being used for.

Global comparison requires the same measures being used, so hospital deaths are the key data for that.

Domestic stats are collated by the ONS

But other countries are admitting patients to hospital that we are not. So it is not comparable at all.

So in the UK if you are in a care home you are not admitted to hospital. If you are deemed not ill enough to be admitted to hospital, and the bar seems very high, then you may die at home. If you are terminally ill, you will not be admitted to hospital.

And Scotland in their daily briefing does talk about the community deaths.

Scotland reports theirs on a wednesday rather than daily whereas England reports theirs on a tuesday

Admitting???

I don't get it, the inflammatory language. Nothing is being hidden. You are misunderstanding what is happening.

Many governments are issuing lots of different information, based mostly on what reliable stats they have at any given time.

Do you think the non hospital deaths get left off the death toll? They don't, there will be an adjustment to bring the data sets up to date, as has happens since this started!

Okay you are wrong it is still not being reported in ONS.
If you look at a newspaper for the 3rd of April, the amount if hospital deaths being reported is exactly the same as the number being reported in ONS for the same time period.
So care home deaths and community deaths for corona in England are NOT being reported.
They are still being hidden from us. And I suspect that is because they are large.

Ah! Misread that. Yes, different countries do things differently. It depends on their health system.

Again though, nobody's death is being hidden

Yes it is care home and community deaths are still not being reported in England.

In Ireland on the news every day we are told the total number of deaths and they are then broken down to hospital, nursing homes and at home cases which seems to be the most honest straight forward way of reporting. I do think that they are trying to keep the numbers down in the UK.

Was April 3rd a Tuesday?

No? Then yes, the data sets would be the same. ONS updates in England on Tuesdays.

@alloutoffucks my relative didn't go to hospital but they didn't have any symptoms, they were reluctant to eat but this had been going on previously due to their illness. We were all surprised that the death certificate stated corona.

Also it's taken about 2 wks for the certificate so that explains some delay.

Just click on the link above.

It's pretty clear.

@alloutoffucks
You've misread that, this is what it says
Of deaths involving COVID-19 registered up to Week 14, 90.2% (3,716 deaths) occurred in hospital, with the remainder occurring in hospices, care homes and private homes

Up to w/e 3rd April, 90.2% of covid deaths took place in hospital, (3,716) the rest took place in hospices, care homes or private homes. That is 9.8% of all covid related deaths.

I thought they were on ons website

The Office for National Statistics data showed the virus was mentioned on 3,475 death certificates in the week ending 3 April

This is from the BBC page linked. It is the total number of deaths with COVID mentioned ( so dying with and dying of) in the hospital, care homes and the community.

There are still excess deaths relative to previous averages. This could be because of people with other conditions not getting treatment, or because of under diagnosis of presumed CV. The certification rules have changed so that more presumed CV will be listed.

Are we all using the same understanding of the word reported?

If you mean ‘by the press’ then perhaps they’re not, in the press you consume.

If you mean ‘recorded officially’ then of course they are!

The really interesting data will be total overall deaths I.e. did more people die than usual during this period or was it just more people died with one single illness. I'm sure there will be an increase but I bet it's not as high as the "daily deaths" figure would suggest.

I read there's about 11000 care homes in the UK looking after 410k people. That's not an insignificant number & I'm not sure it's possible to not have a lag in figures.

Seems people are trying to justify what they say ie we aren't reporting as they haven't looked it all up themselves and have relied on others saying it and took it as true .

The ONS says week ending 3rd of April 3,475 deaths had corona mentioned on death certificate. That is slightly less than the numbers reported to have died in hospital of corona by the 3rd of April.
So how could care home and deaths in the community possible be included?

And I know there is a delay with death certificates. Sadly have had to deal with this more than once.