Surely schools have to be first to open?

[Riddlediddle]

I know lockdown is for at least another 3 weeks (and likely longer!) however when we do start to come out of lockdown surely schools have to be the first thing to reopen? Parents of children of primary school age (me included) will not be able to return to their jobs unless the schools are open or childcare options are available? I just don't see how this will all work as surely schools will not be at full staffing levels due to some having to self isolate/be in higher risk categories. I just wish the government would give us some indication of what the exit plan is.

@Rhica, prison service staff are working in very cramped close quarters with hundreds of others and little to no PPE as the NHS is being prioritised for obvious reasons. Many of them are vulnerable but unless we are in the extremely vulnerable category we have to just get on with it.

As someone said up thread, I’m glad I’m not making or advising on these decisions, with such a shaky and incomplete evidence base and almost certain negative consequences from any option.

Absolutely agree with you there.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-stop-speculation-about-schools-reopening

@spudsarelife84 They are another valid example. Thankyou

They have only missed 10 days of school.

In totally abnormal circumstances, and we all know that they will miss many more, with total uncertainty for them on when it will end.

Let’s not downplay the impact on kids. It’s necessary but for many of them it is a very difficult time. I have one who is taking it totally in his stride and one for whom it is very stressful.

I don’t think anyone here has suggested they should be opening next week though? Just that, when things are being considered they may we’ll need to be nearer the front of the queue than the back. That’s not the same as “end lockdown and open the schools on Monday”.

@rhica I don't understand - shops should all be observing social distancing. Care workers should have PPE and it's a disgrace if they don't. Bus drivers where I am are behind a plastic screen which must help a bit, and don't handle any money anyway.
Like most teachers I know I am also on a rota to go in, haven't had to yet but it's soon, and I will be observing social distancing when I do - there will only be a handful of children I am with not like a normal day at all.

Let’s not downplay the impact on kids

Absolutely not I just think its the whole situation not just the lack of school. It's awful for them.
It's awful for lots of people.

Spuds I would also say that it's completely unreasonable for you to work without protection. The government has made a lot of crap choices throughout this in terms of planning and preparing.

Absolutely not I just think its the whole situation not just the lack of school. It's awful for them.

Indeed. But school would provide a great deal of stability and normality, particularly while other aspects of their lives including seeing extended family are likely to be very restricted for a long time. For my children it would make a huge difference for their wellbeing. It would also make a difference to their, and our, long term wellbeing for my husband and I to be able to do more to safeguard our jobs and increase the viability of our respective employers.

Before I’m accused again of not caring, I’m not advocating for schools to go back immediately. But I can see arguments for them being an early measure, despite wildly conflicting views from public health experts on likely impacts.

Indeed. But school would provide a great deal of stability and normality

*Sat 2m apart and scared to ' infect' their parents,Grandparents and teachers. I don't think so.

I would prefer a few weeks of 'a holiday 'playing and seeing friends but I do see that for those that worry about their livelihoods this will be different. I an just speaking from a mental health point of view from my own children and the ones I have spoken too.

But as you said I think we agree we both glad it isn't our final decision.*

I'm not sure how it's possible to teach phonics to 30 reception children with my mouth covered.

I'm also not sure how we would observe social distancing, even if we had 1/2 the pupils in as we are a huge school with over 1000 pupils.

Bloody coronavirus needs to sod off so we can go back to 'normal' whatever that now is...

@Onceateacher unfortunately not everyone currently that is working is going to be completely shielded and there will become a point where more of us have to go back to work and the virus will still be about and shielding /distancing won't be possible

I think my point has got sidetracked somewhat. I still think it's a disgusting attitude for someone to say if they have to go to work then they will ignore all other social distancing measures because they are already exposed and put others at risk. I would be so upset if that was the attitude of one my sons teachers. But I will raise him to be a better and more considerate person than this

@Onceateacher and also thankyou for still going to work to allow other key workers to continue with their work. 😊

Bloody coronavirus needs to sod off
Well I think this is something we can all agree on!

There are many nhs staff with asthma etc who are at greater risk. Thankgoodness they are all prepared to do their jobs we owe them all a huge debt of gratitude and a payrise.

I still think it's a disgusting attitude for someone to say if they have to go to work then they will ignore all other social distancing measures because they are already exposed and put others at risk

The reason why closing schools is so effective at supporting social distancing is that it stops households coming together.

It will be very difficult to tell people that they ok, yes-they must walk their children to school, stand in the playground with 500 other parents twice a day and allow their child to very closely mix with 500 other children and assorted staff, but they can’t mix with any of those same children/parents in the streets at any other time-walking home/passing through the park, having a coffee etc

We’ve all seen the numerous questions posted on here over the last week-‘I know it’s a lockdown, but can I just...’ to which the answer is always NO!’, but there are a lot of people who simply won’t see the point as if they’re all mixing with these people for 6 hours a day, there’s no harm in doing it after school as well. Secondary school kids will be getting buses/trains from all over as well-spreading Far and wide.

Social distancing will stop when schools are open. Not from teachers, but just people.

Social distancing will stop when schools are open. Not from teachers, but just people.

I think as parents it is easy for us to forget that many people aren’t, and that there are degrees of social distancing. If WFH is maintained as a fairly strong policy measure it reduces a huge amount of causal contact, especially on public transport. Large gatherings, restaurants, cinemas, pubs - all places where more casual contact takes place and contact tracing much more difficult.

As someone said, a school is a more closed and stable population where contact tracing would be infinitely easier.

The other assumption people appear to be making on this thread is that children are ‘germ-ridden’ super spreaders of COVID-19 as they are with influenza, rather than much more marginal as with SARS and MERS. There is no evidence base for this. (There isn’t much of an evidence base at all but it’s worth challenging when people state this as fact.

Most expert comment I’ve seen is around the fact that they have no idea yet why and how this plays out in children - what’s the ratio of them not getting it vs being asymptomatic (ie it a different ratio than in adults); what is the relative R0 of an asymptomatic child, why do they tend to have it so mildly when they do get it, etc etc.

@Appuskidu I completely agree. That is the reality and we can only hope the science we are relying on takes this into account. There's no way the majority of parents at my school wouldn't use bringing their child to school as an opportunity to hang around in the playground at pick up so the children can play and they can catch up with each other.

I'm not a scientist and I will of course go back to 'normal' schooling when the science says it is safe to do so but I'm just not convinced the reopening of schools will be with anything to do with protecting lives - I think it's more likely that decisions will be made with an economic hat on.

Whilst none of us really know whether children are super spreaders or not, what I do know is that 3 staff were symptomatic after being around 3 separate children who were coughing and spluttering when at school. One was mildly affected and 2 were taken out quite badly. Of course we don't know it was covid-19 for sure but they sure seemed to think it was.

If that is 3 children in a small group of around 35, I'd hedge a bet staff and parents and carers will be the first to be on the receiving end.

I've been in over the holiday looking after children and am yet to show any symptoms so hopefully I will be fine. Who knows?

I think when teachers talk about children being germ ridden etc, it may be inaccurate to say they spread the virus quickly but it is quite accurate to say that whatever they have, they will spread, due to appalling personal hygiene and cramped conditions.

I think as parents it is easy for us to forget that many people aren’t, and that there are degrees of social distancing.

So maybe these people can start the economy up where its easier to social distance then. Not start with schools where its nigh on impossible.

It does seem that there are some groups who won’t be comfortable with schools going back until there is a vaccine based on some comments. I think that is unrealistic but perhaps I am wrong. We will see.

Agree Sunshine.

I would be happier if the numbers were lower and we had more testing.

Otherwise I am honestly scared.