Surely schools have to be first to open?

[Riddlediddle]

I know lockdown is for at least another 3 weeks (and likely longer!) however when we do start to come out of lockdown surely schools have to be the first thing to reopen? Parents of children of primary school age (me included) will not be able to return to their jobs unless the schools are open or childcare options are available? I just don't see how this will all work as surely schools will not be at full staffing levels due to some having to self isolate/be in higher risk categories. I just wish the government would give us some indication of what the exit plan is.

I don’t think they know what the exit plan is themselves yet!

Who knows but I think that's what they are doing in France. They have said 11th May though for schools and then restaurants etc to open in July!

I'm glad i'm not the one having to make the decisions.

When schools re-open general social distancing STOPS. That same day.

Schools are a super spreader hot bed of germs and germ transmission. Every family with children at a school will be exchanging germs with every other family with children at the school and there will be pretty much zero point in carrying on most of societies new distancing rules from then on.

I mean you may this is ok and completely worth it - i'm not commenting on that (i've got a 6 year old at home missing school dreadfully and i can't wait for her to be able to go back) - but it's important to remember that when you call for schools to re open on xyz date, you ARE basically calling for an end to social distancing on that same date.

I’ve been advised to shield and am so worried about schools going back for the reasons @Laiste states. I feel bad as my dc’s are really missing school but I just feel safer with everyone at home. I don’t see how it’s possible for people to shield if their kids are going to school with all the associated germs🙁

There can be no social distancing when schools are open. As a teacher, if I’m going to spend my days in a small room with lots of germ-filled young people, I don’t see the point of them constraining the rest of my life by staying indoors and not going anywhere. I’m very happy to stay at home right now but being at college five days a week completely undoes any of the good of staying in.

I dont see how schools can go back if some people are still being told to shield. We were down to half a large department due to staff shielding before lockdown.

If we opened for anything, it would be to continue childcare, as we simply cannot staff classes.

And there would be no way to separate students in classrooms. Rooms are too small and classes too big. And you couldn't even halve classes as there wont be the staff.

It is massively worrying how some students have not done a jot of work since we closed. Not a surprise though. We use a system that allows us to see the last time a child logged in to see the work set. It also tells us the last time a parent logged in to see the work set...

Social distancing would reduce but it doesn’t have to stop - I can see them seeing what effect schools being back but no other restrictions lifted to see what impact it has on the infection rate. Especially in lesser affected areas. I think the south west will be freed up more than London. Another 6 weeks to May half term and some areas like the south west will be almost clear if the infection and there would be no reason to not send schools back.

If schools go back surely it doesn’t mean the end of all social distancing straight away does it? There can still be the limiting of numbers in supermarkets, trying to keep 2m apart, people who are retired or on long term sick can continue to isolate with dedicated shopping hours. Can those things not be carried on for another couple of months to help hold it off a bit?

Yes @poppliousbube you could still say no family gatherings etc, it might be enough to get the r value significantly lower whilst allowing a bit more normality. Lots of people who declared themselves as vulnerable but not in the shielded group may have to go back to work.

There's a big overlap between households with children and households with vulnerable and/or elderly people.

What will happen to the vulnerable people in a house with kids going to school? They can't go and live in a bedroom. And this (big) group of children can't miss out on weeks of mainstream school when all the rest are back.

Who knows but I think that's what they are doing in France. They have said 11th May though for schools and then restaurants etc to open in July!

*With testing for ANYONE with symptoms though. Testing is hugely important. Will we also have this?

I wonder what proportion of the work force actually rely on primary school 9-3 child care to work. Does anyone know the Stats on this. Maybe y7 and 8 secondary too?*

I wonder what proportion of the work force actually rely on primary school 9-3 child care to work. Does anyone know the Stats on this. Maybe y7 and 8 secondary too?

Goodness knows but huge numbers I imagine.

Maybe secondary schools could partially re open. Could do year 7 & 9 on some days and years 8 & 10 on others. A lot of teachers will be in the at risk group or will live with loved ones who are at risk.
Can’t see how you can fully staff at school and allow for shielding.

If schools go back surely it doesn’t mean the end of all social distancing straight away does it? There can still be the limiting of numbers in supermarkets, trying to keep 2m apart, people who are retired or on long term sick can continue to isolate with dedicated shopping hours. Can those things not be carried on for another couple of months to help hold it off a bit?

So I have to be in a germ filled room all day then queue for 2 hours outside a supermarket with low stocks.
Brilliant!

I genuinely don’t know what some people want to happen? There is no magical solution to this.

refraction it absolutely wouldn’t be perfect. But I’m just asking if the schools going back would mean all restrictions would immediately have to be lifted. So, if not limiting numbers in supermarkets, maybe asking people not to travel outside their area unless absolutely necessary, keeping the distances in public spaces as much as possible, if vulnerable people are able to continue isolating then they should etc.

Yes, because not everyone in the supermarket has been in a germ filled room all day so why would you potentially want to pass the virus on to them? Social distancing is not about protecting you, as an individual. It's also about protecting people from you.

So I have to be in a germ filled room all day then queue for 2 hours outside a supermarket with low stocks.
Brilliant!

I guess this is other people’s reality right now though.

I agree though. I can’t see how parents can social distance whilst dropping off and collecting primary school kids. I can’t see how secondary school chn can get to school whilst social distancing. And with teachers shielding or self isolating there will be the risk of having to make some classes larger. Also I think lots of parents will start up play dates etc if kids are at school. I can’t see social distancing lasting much longer - even if we do still need to queue to get into shops.

people who are retired or on long term sick can continue to isolate with dedicated shopping hours.

At the risk of being pedantic, I'm neither retired nor on the long term sick and have been asked to shield. I'm just pointing this out because it seems quite a lot of people think that the entire group are quite obviously unwell and I think that informs a lot of opinions about what adaptations and limitations are possible for all the shielded population.

Schools reopening doesn't necessarily mean they open as they were before. For example, Italy is talking about morning and afternoon shifts as a possibility, combined with ongoing distance learning (organised to ensure all students have devices and internet access). That's for September.

It’ll mean that public transport (London) is pretty much fully back in use too

Schools closed before lockdown started, didn’t they?

I’d expect the last things to close would be the first things to reopen.

Schools would prioritise years 10 and 12 (if before end of summer term, and years 10-13 in the autumn)

Expanding the childcare aspect in primaries, in step with what jobs/roles were re-opening (in other than WFM ways) might make sense

I’m worried about DD. As she’s going in to Y12 in September, I really want her in school. But I’m shielding, and I just haven’t worked out the logistics of that one yet

At the risk of being pedantic, I'm neither retired nor on the long term sick and have been asked to shield

Me too

I think there are far too many who think it’s a synonym for ‘decrepit and moribund’

I can think of lots of ways to reduce the number of overall contacts whilst schools are open.

Half half of the children in the morning and half in the afternoon. Children have short outside playtime with their class only. Packed lunches eaten in classrooms. Teachers to move between classrooms rather than students. Classes to enter and leave school in a staggered way, strict rules about remaining at home with even mild illness etc etc etc there are hundreds.

A school is a relatively closed community. If all other restrictions remain the same I can see how we could trial opening schools and see how that impacted on infection rates.

I think it's because it was politically useful to some to propogate this myth that we were all going to drop dead in the next few weeks in any case which is now used as a benign 'fact' by people who simply took their word for it.

@iVampire I think there’s a strong possibility that schools will reopen on a geographical basis and that London schools will reopen later than those in lesser affected areas.

Half half of the children in the morning and half in the afternoon.

We can't fit half the class in the classroom with social distancing measures still in place.

In our largest classrooms we can fit 8 pupils in.

So would need to be 3 shifts.