Surely schools have to be first to open?

[Riddlediddle]

I know lockdown is for at least another 3 weeks (and likely longer!) however when we do start to come out of lockdown surely schools have to be the first thing to reopen? Parents of children of primary school age (me included) will not be able to return to their jobs unless the schools are open or childcare options are available? I just don't see how this will all work as surely schools will not be at full staffing levels due to some having to self isolate/be in higher risk categories. I just wish the government would give us some indication of what the exit plan is.

Sunshine but that means the teacher us exposed to all kids in the morning and afternoon unless they stagger staff too but not sure there will be enough not in the vulnerable group.

I am not shielding but I am at greater risk. So are between 1/3 and 1/2 of the members of our staff.

Are we expected to just risk it?

I’m not suggesting it would be full social distancing, I’m suggesting it will reduce the number of contacts each person has in a day. I can’t see how you would get primary school children to stay away from each other so I think that element will be unworkable. That doesn’t mean no actions can be taken.

I think we will wait and see what happens in France and then go from there , but really if schools go back then I agree with others social distancing will be hard and if kids are back can't see people wanting to follow any other rules so think others would have to be relaxed ( not pubs and restaurants ) but going out etc

@Hollyhead the SW is expecting to reach peak around late May - I think it will be over in London first & the regions later, not the other way round.

Half our staff went home when the shielding rules came in, if they stay off for the full 12 weeks that brings us to the middle of June, Our school closes for the Summer on the 24th June this year. We can’t have all the children in with half staff it wouldn’t be safe (SEN school). Nicola Sturgeon has said it may be August before schools open again.

I really hope not contrary to popular belief that teachers do nothing for the month of June we are very busy with transitions/new classes/assessments etc. We don’t even know how many children we will be receiving come August with no visits.

@justdontatme by what logic have they got to that? We all locked down at the same time so everyone’s peak is the next week or so.

Yeah I've said similar I can't go back to work till schools do but I do think it'll be difficult for social distancing.
I suspect it'll be relaxed on a small scale like some small non essential shops / offices then maybe bigger ones . I think schools will be a later end of May time early June but not to full capacity just for some that need to work . It'll help people that need to work for a few weeks till they break up in July .
Bars / restaurants July/ August time maybe . I honestly can't see social distancing ending for quite some time , it'll be gradual process .

But we are all eventually going to have to start taking some limited risks. Unless we seal ourselves into our houses for a couple of years we have to take some tentative steps towards normality and see what happens. We are lucky in a way that we have Italy, Spain, France etc ahead of us and we can see how what they do works out.

There are definitely some areas who are still progressing on an upward trajectory even as London and others appear to be standing in terms of case loads. I'm hoping they bear this in mind when making a decision about their next steps (not least as I'm in the North East).

Standing? Stabilising.

^I can think of lots of ways to reduce the number of overall contacts whilst schools are open.

Half half of the children in the morning and half in the afternoon. Children have short outside playtime with their class only. Packed lunches eaten in classrooms. Teachers to move between classrooms rather than students. Classes to enter and leave school in a staggered way, strict rules about remaining at home with even mild illness etc etc etc there are hundreds.

A school is a relatively closed community. If all other restrictions remain the same I can see how we could trial opening schools and see how that impacted on infection rates.^

Schools where I live (not UK!) are beginning to open up this week for Early Years and Primary. Secondary will start back in a few weeks. Lots of guidance given by the government that have to be in place before a school can reopen. 2m between desks, smaller class sizes, teach outside as much as possible, regular hand washing/sanitising, regular cleaning throughout the day of toilets, door handles amongst other things as well as many points mentioned in the post above. Not sure how all these things will be put into place, guessing leadership will have to get back to teaching if classes have to be split and school is going to be a very different place to be. Nervous about sending our eldest back (year 2) and have chosen to keep our daughter (4 years old) at home as we're not sure how she'd go with all the changes and restrictions. Fingers crossed it all works out.

I am not shielding but I am at greater risk. So are between 1/3 and 1/2 of the members of our staff

I’m not at greater risk but my husband is. No point him staying off work if he’s got me and the kids spreading disease.

I'm a TA and work both in nursery and primary 1. This means I come in contact each day with 110 children age 3-6 and 2 teams of staff in any one day (of course the p1 children are mixing in the playground with the wider school) and I rely on parents for some childcare. My own dc are still primary age at a different large primary school so my potential alone as a spreader is huge. Schools are not a place it's remotely possible to carry out any sort of distancing

My daughter ( year 1 ) is in shielding there is no way she would be able to attend at the moment it’s nice to know that she isn’t the only one in her class at school because from previous knowledge I know when they go back and it’s just a few off there will be 0 support for them of work. !

It's not just as easy as half children in the morning and half in the afternoon. I work for school transport. Every day we transport over 700 children ranging from 8 -18 .some of these children from 30 or so miles away from their school, over an hour journey each way. We will be massively short on drivers as some are in the at risk category. So the remainder of the drivers would need to pick up the slack. We wouldn't have enough drivers to cover the multiple routes/services as it is, let alone doubling up to 4 runs per route per day,rather than 4. We need to work within the law of driving hours and rest breaks. Plus I'm not sure the local authority schools or the private ones would be willing to pay double transport costs. Then add in parents who work around school hours, they will need support from employers to change and reduce hours. The children that go on the morning session, would they be able to go to after school care for example? Will after school clubs be able to deal with the increase in costs and hours to provide wrap around care?

I think people who demand schools be the first thing to reopen seem to forget schools were the first to close for good reason! Too many teachers were told to sheild, and too many were off due to covid symptoms in the household. This meant there was a massive lack of staff and schools could not continue. It's not like in an office job where one person is sick so the rest of the team can pick up the slack. Schools barely have enough teachers as it is, and you cannot have one teacher teach a class of 60.
Until the 12 weeks shielding requirement is up, I cannot see how schools can reopen fully.

Oh for fucks sake it’s not safe and stop trying to kill your kids

I thought the social distancing measures were to reduce the number of people who had the disease at the same time, not to reduce it overall? So the same number of people will get it at some point, but their chances of recovery are higher because the hospitals are under less strain.
Covid-19 isn’t going to go away, and a vaccine will take some time to develop. Unless people are planning to stay locked away for another year at some point we have to start mixing again.

Schools going back first makes overwhelming logical sense, but I would imagine that teachers and their militant unions will be doing everything in their power to extend the shutdown as well as avoiding doing extra during the summer.

So hopefully common sense will win the day, but you will find that vast numbers of teachers will suddenly become symptomatic when faced with the prospect of returning to work.

Schools could begin to reopen to children who have non key worker working parents, but using the same tasks as those set online. In secondary schools this might also extend to those who have not been engaging with online work. This might help some students to return sooner whilst also meaning that other students who can work at home are able to. A staggered return would help with the curve flattening.

It’s tricky, there do seem to be groups who think we are staying inside until COVID has gone away. Then we will emerge into a COVID free world and everyone will be safe. That obviously is to going to happen.

When you flatten the curve the area under the curve (translating to the number of infections) remains the same, it just carries on for longer at a lower rate.

I’m keeping everything crossed the September vaccine is a runner as that will pretty much deal with the issue but I think it’s ambitious.

I don’t think anyone is “demanding” schools open first but it has to be recognised that most parents cannot continue to work for months and/or years while simultaneously caring for pre school children or homeschooling. If we want people to get back to something approaching full productivity we will need schools up and running.

There is also the impact on the mental health and education of children. There is no obvious easy, risk free answer but we have to start somewhere.

@Elisheva completely true. It was merely to flatten the curve so that the NHS could manage. People on here are living in LaLa land if they think we can afford to maintain a year or more of lockdown. Some of us have had to travel on a packed tube and work in hospitals or supermarkets throughout this, apparently that risk is ok for us but not for them.

England deaths are 744

*bottlenose301

Who knows but I think that's what they are doing in France. They have said 11th May though for schools and then restaurants etc to open in July!*

That’s not quite right. Confinement is to continue as it is now until 11 May. Then after that, schools may begin to reopen - but it will be progressive, part-time and not for all pupils.