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Covid

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It's predicted we might well be the worst affected country in Europe

253 replies

KenDodd · 12/04/2020 19:26

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859

OP posts:
starlightgazers · 13/04/2020 01:16

France now includes all care home deaths with COVID, which raised their death totals a lot

So we don';t include those but our numbers are still bigger?

there were 3 people from a care home,
aged 82, 88 and 104, all with multiple comorbidities

But surely the first two could possibly have lived quite a few more years if they hadn't have contracted the virus? I think it's right that it is named unless the person was considered to be late stage end of life before contracting the virus.

middleager · 13/04/2020 01:26

I know Starlight
It is useful, yet depressing, to have it all in one place.

starlightgazers · 13/04/2020 01:33

@middleager It is useful, yet depressing, to have it all in one place

Also depressing to know that many will just dismiss what is said, and continue to insist the government did a great job.

Donchathink · 13/04/2020 01:44

mobile.twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

This Twitter thread says it all. Both Ireland and the UK started with under-resourced health systems, UK had 6.6 ICU beds per 100, 000. Ireland had 6.5. Then look what happened...

7Days · 13/04/2020 02:44

I'm fairly happy with the way the Irish Gov has responded to this crisis, apart from the difficulties in obtaining PPE and testing kits.

But I do not think it's fair to compare the Irish and British stats. I've seen that Twitter thread shared far and wide. Theres a lot in it to chew on, its informative.

But you're not comparing like with like. Ireland had a younger, more homogenous and far less dense population than the UK.

Dublin is seeing by far the greatest number of infections and deaths than, say, Leitrim.
Similar to London and, Cumbria, say.

Oliversmumsarmy · 13/04/2020 02:58

They'll blame China. They already are.
And China has already been blaming the West

Why would China blame the West?

Having said that I was taking it in turns with Dd to go shopping and was persuaded to use one of the larger supermarkets. Not the small one I usually use at a time I know there is fewer people around.

I was shocked that no one appeared to give a fuck about social distancing.

There were 2 nurses in full uniform wandering around with out a basket piling things in their arms then putting things back when it became too difficult to carry.

Then when I got to the checkout just as it was my turn the cashier was swapped for someone who moments before I had passed them and heard them chatting to what looked like one of the managers saying they didn’t feel well. They looked like they were going to pass out.

They then just as I was paying proceeded to have a coughing fit.

No way will I return to that store ever again.

They might have all the tape down and a one way system round the shop but no one was taking any notice of it.

Reginabambina · 13/04/2020 03:09

If you read the full article it concedes towards the bottom that the U.K. is doing alright given it’s population size. As for blame, I don’t think that you can really blame anyone for a natural disaster. Yes China could have contained it but they didn’t realise the magnitude of the issue until it was too late. The British government could have closed the border but they also didn’t realise until it was too late. They could have locked down sooner but that would be unlikely to make a difference in the long term. And so on. At this point the only two measures of good government here are 1. Management of the virus to avoid overwhelming the NHS and 2. Minimising economic disruption.

Iflyaway · 13/04/2020 03:59

Aljazir has over 1700 deaths for Britain
BBC has under 800

I use the worldometers country list (because I have friends and family in different ones around the world and I want to keep track of those countries).

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

nagynolonger · 13/04/2020 05:08

We still haven't closed borders. We 'asked' people to quarantine and stay indoors rather than enforcing it. We're an island. If our government had acted, we could have had rates like NZ. I hope all the people who voted for Boris are having a long hard rethink. It will be a complete disgrace if we ever have a Conservative government again.

New Zealand have a population of 5 million. The UK has 70 million? Not the same situation at all.

I have never voted Tory but I really don't think the Labour party would have done any better if they had been in power. I really do think the government are doing the best they can now. They can't put the clock back.

Every country is looking after its own. We don't make enough PPE and are having to source it from abroad. Long term we are going to have to bring manufacturing back to the UK. We can't depend on others.

Humphriescushion · 13/04/2020 06:53

The care homes in France started being added and the numbers went through the roof. Around 9,000 died in hosital and 4,000 from care homes and outside. I wish the uk was more transparent with its figures.

DeathByBoredom · 13/04/2020 06:54

We will mostly just shrug our shoulders at this, if it turns out to be the case, and move on. There's nothing about the way the average English voter (and it is mostly English) behaves that suggests they care much about the elderly, the vulnerable, long term investment or healthcare. Why would the habits of a lifetime change now?

midgebabe · 13/04/2020 06:59

Why does having a larger population mean you can't act firmly and decisively at the start of a major problem as opposed to letting it get out of control?

If you have a larger population you should have everything else scaled up

BertieBotts · 13/04/2020 07:01

The NHS has been systematically underfunded for over a decade and can't cope with an event of this scale, that's the problem. No other European country's health service is stretched in the same way. It's a joke, and it's been dangerous for a long time, it's just we're seeing it on a mass scale and able to compare with other countries we think of as having a comparable standard of living - we don't. They overtook us several years ago.

okiedokieme · 13/04/2020 07:07

We have one of the biggest populations so not surprising

larrygrylls · 13/04/2020 07:21

I find that both the BBC and FT are fairly shamelessly showing their anti U.K. bias, believing (ever since Brexit) that the U.K. have few resources and little competence.

There is scant mention of the fact that we, as a nation, are very strong at research, and could well end up being the country that produces the first vaccine or how well the U.K. is observing our lockdown, despite minimal reinforcement.

Our government certainly misstepped at first, and given that patient numbers were doubling every 2.5 days, this undoubtedly cost many lives. However, the NHS is coping (after a fashion) and our high (ish) death toll is far more a function of the average age of those infected (mid 60s, just like Italy) rather than our flawed and underfunded medical system.

It will be interesting to see the final outcome of case fatalities per capita and adjusted for age. I suspect that most 1st world nations will be pretty similar.

The breakdown of the EU structure, however, although touched upon, has been little highlighted. Italy is now broke and, to date, the richer northern countries have only offered a fraction of what they need to be bailed out. I suspect that, when we become less monofocused, a full blown Euro crisis will ensue (which will be awful for everyone, including the U.K.).

London, being such an international crossroad, was always going to be hit hard and so we were. However there is now evidence that London has peaked, with hospital admissions decreasing over the last couple of days (not conclusively yet).

I am not a fan of Panglossian optimism. However, I do feel that actively talking one’s own country down at a time of crisis is unpatriotic (which I suspect some will take as a compliment; it is not) and feeds back negatively into consumer confidence and, thus, the real economy,

orangelightbulb · 13/04/2020 07:23

Could it be our aged population, England (not U.K.) being one of the highest population per sq/km in Europe and the higher % BAME population who it's now being suggested are more susceptible to dying form CV19?

I think lockdown should have happened earlier too but Other EU countries have a much stricter lockdown going on as well. IMO the U.K. lockdown is suitable if people would just keep to it.
Stricter lockdowns are affecting people's mental health. Lockdown here is not nice but full lockdown could actually have more deaths from outside of the CV19 not to mention due to the overpopulation in some areas in england, increase in issues from the mental health problems that will inevitably arise.

We also have a large illegal immigrant and homeless population. I doubt very much they were all provided with suitable lockdown accommodation.
The whole things a mess.

ludicrouslemons · 13/04/2020 07:23

Of course we do. The government is a dysfunctional bunch of brexit toadies. They were chosen for devotion to a moronic pipe dream, not for competence.

mochojoes · 13/04/2020 07:35

It's also worth nothing when comparing to other countries our taxes & healthcare costs. For example Ireland has quite high medical costs or France which has much higher social security costs. Germany & France tax high earners (100k) much more then we do.

Random18 · 13/04/2020 07:44

Ireland do appear to be doing better at the moment.

They locked down earlier and flattened the curve before it really became a curve.

It may be that at the end of it all, they have managed to maintain this and will come out the other side in a much better position than the UK.

Although you could also worry that any 2nd wave could potentially hit them significantly worse than the UK. Although it may be that they plan to lock down longterm? Would fatigue set in? Could they afford it?

Who knows. Its too early to compare.

midgebabe · 13/04/2020 07:58

I think the options are either repeated lockdowns or a much stronger test and trace and isolate like South Korea for example

The later requires significant effort and organisation and requires a public prepared to trade some liberties ( privacy) for others ( freedom of movement) but would protect the economy and jobs and ( if implemented well) minimise the overall number of deaths

leckford · 13/04/2020 08:02

Perhaps it was not such a good idea to massively increase the population so much over the past 10 years? Does the U.K. need so many Uber drivers and people delivering pizzas on bikes. There was a picture in the Guardian showing a family of 7 living in 1 room in London. 5 children why?

EggBaconBeans · 13/04/2020 08:03

Our population is huge for such a small Island. Over 66 million with 9 million in London alone.

If you look at Sweden with a population of 10 million and 5 million people in New Zealand and the population density, there absolutely is no comparison.

fluffymummykins · 13/04/2020 08:05

We’re so densely populated, that’s why it’s bad here. Not to mention the amount of selfish idiots (mainly young people) who flout the rules.

Astoatora54 · 13/04/2020 08:10

Well said! What more can we bloody do now? We are all staying in ALL the time- everything outside is shut.

Lots of things could be done -

  • a stricter lockdown like in Spain and Italy
  • wider testing
  • enforcing wearing of masks

I'm not saying that they should be done but surely we should evaluate everything and see what is working elsewhere?

Iamthewombat · 13/04/2020 08:12

Perhaps it was not such a good idea to massively increase the population so much over the past 10 years? Does the U.K. need so many Uber drivers and people delivering pizzas on bikes. There was a picture in the Guardian showing a family of 7 living in 1 room in London. 5 children why?

I’m surprised that you looked at that story in the Guardian and felt anything other than pity for that family.

As for does the UK need so many pizza delivery drivers: evidently yes.