Exercise could be banned - Matt Hancock

[LittleRen]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52172035

"Matt Hancock told the BBC's Andrew Marr that the government would "take action" if further measures are needed to bring the coronavirus under control.

It comes after reports of groups of people gathering in parks during sunny weather this weekend."

So do we think this will happen - normally this is how it goes, the threat comes, and a week later it's reality. It's a shame that people still flouted the rules this weekend :(

I can't see a thread on this already but please let me know if there is one!!

Blakes77 your I'm alright Jack attitude must really endure you to the people in flats.
Hilarious. You know nothing about me. I have lost my income and my daily excercise helps me to cope. If I had a garden I could probably manage, but I don't. And I don't do Facebook, as it's full of people like you! 😂

PomBearsyummy

from your wiki link, the first text on the page reads as follows:

"This article is about the disease. For the virus, see Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2. "

your link again, re the disease Covid-19

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus_disease_2019

There is the virus: Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), colloquially known as the coronavirus and previously known by the provisional name 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome_coronavirus_2

and there is a disease Covid-19, which is a consequence of the virus, see the first link in this post

It is a bit like the virus HIV that causes AIDS. HIV is not AIDS, alsthough AIDS at one point was referred to as "HIV disease" just as Codiv-19 is referred to as "coronavirus disease"

One of the reasons why it is so important that people understand that the virus and the disease are not the same thing is that infection with the virus does not automatically mean that a person with get the disease.

Experts on the coronavirus and Covid-19 have repeatedly stated that age and underlying health conditions are important causal factors in whether or not people who get the virus go on to get the disease.

This is still a very new virus and all the top experts are saying that all the information that they have about it is provisional. There are lots of thigs we do not know about the virus and anyone who speaks with certainty today risks looking foolish in days to come.

However, one thing that all the experts who have talked at length about causal factors have stressed is that a strong immune system appears to be important in combatting the virus and that good physical health is extremely important too.

For example, obesity in younger people is a serious risk factor.

As I said in an earlier post one expert advised everone who was not extremely physically fit to start a regime of strenuous exercise and to train hard as if getting fit enough to prepare for high risk surgery.

Another expert talked about the effect of muscle development and resistance training on the immune system. More muscles / less fat = a stronger immune system. People carrying excess weight and with poor muscle tone are likely to struggle.

If what these experts are saying is true, and it males a lot of sense to me, then it our duty to get as much exercise as possible providing we are responsible, observe social distancing, and do not engage in exercise that encourages others to put people at risk (thus me not visiting the local rivers).

We are not helpless in the face of this invisible enemy. Various experts have been advising people to get outside and engage in strenous exercise as if preparing for a fight with an opponent. That is what I am trying to do and I will carry on as long as I can.

Apologies for the long post above

In brief

Getting regular, strenuous exercise could mean that people who get the virus either do not go on to get the disease or, if they do get the disease, are less likely to die.

It is my understanding that the government, for all their many mistakes and incompetencies, do not want to stop people from exercising outside. They appreciate that exercising outside benefits mental and physical health.

They just don't want people treating going to the park as some kind of holiday or big party, ignoring social distancing and spreading the virus.

If the parks were full of people exercising dilligently on their own then everyone would be happy and doing their bit to help the NHS, the country and our communities.

I’m in London and they are having barbecues! There were several barbers on my street. Even my downstairs neighbour had a visitor turn up today to sunbathe.

We're so lucky to have the internet. Plenty of online guides to home exercise. Something that's always been a lifeline for the housebound.

Exercise and sunshine are so important for health, including potential resistance to a variety of infections that would cause more problems for the NHS. A nationwide blanket ban on outdoor exercise sounds very counterproductive. Surely enforcement of existing rules, greater availability of food deliveries so fewer in-person visits to shops are necessary, re-examination of other things (like building sites still being operational) and above all massive testing and tracing of infection would be more effective.

Btw thank you, hoodathunkit, for motivating me about working out!

can't the govt /councils re-deploy traffic wardens to go out and tag the ones who are flouting the regs?

They want to imprison us and yet they have delayed and failed to launch a proper recovery/exit strategy like other countries...

hoodathunkit - that is very useful to know. Thankyou.

My gut feeling was telling me this - hence us going out for a long walk each day. I've lost a few members of my family to cancer - including a parent at a young age - and have forever had a strong instinct to stay as healthy and ready to fight off illness as possible.

It frightens me this talk of complete lock down - and so many people so keen to urge it on - because I know that this will cause more deaths, not less.

If the government believes this too - they must make it clear. Make it clear that people must exercise and stay healthy in order to fight the virus off. That's why we must not be having picnics and just sunbathing during out exercise time (although I'm sure sunbathing must help the immune system too).

We need the government to talk us through it all. They need to help us understand - and that includes all the policing types on the internet - because they've got it all wrong, and they're not helping.

didn't need traffic wardens, I'm sure they can come up with some emergency powers that give them grounds to grab all the mobile phone data to get a clearer picture on the compliance issues

Make it clear that people must exercise and stay healthy
Yes I'm also wondering why they're not actually spelling that part of it out, not making the point that a lack of exercise weekends our health and makes us susceptible to this virus, that we all have a duty to stay as healthy as possible so as to 'save the nation'
why don't they make that clearer, what do they have to lose?

*Weakens our health not weekends our health 🙈

Polly02

You are very welcome. So sorry to hear about losing your loved ones to cancer

If the government believes this too - they must make it clear. Make it clear that people must exercise and stay healthy in order to fight the virus off. That's why we must not be having picnics and just sunbathing during out exercise time (although I'm sure sunbathing must help the immune system too).

We need the government to talk us through it all. They need to help us understand - and that includes all the policing types on the internet - because they've got it all wrong, and they're not helping.

The problem with epidemics and pandemics is that they spread very quickly and catch governments on the back foot.

There is also the "cry wolf" issue. Ebola and the other extremely dangerous earlier coronaviruses Sars and Mers all threatened to become pandemics but were controlled fortunately.

Each time experts alerted govermnents to the "wake up call" that were were overdue a serious global pandemic like the 1918 so called "Spanish flu" (misnamed) , each time it didn't happen and everyone became complacent.

Now we find ourselves in an extremely serious situation in which doctors, nurses, carers, police officers, prison officers and a huge population of previously unnoticed hardworking ordinary workers now find themselves on the "frontline", a war they never signed up for.

For some insane reason we are being invited to clap in a meaningless, cult like ritual, to show appreciation for the NHS when in fact a far better way to show our appreciation is to exercise hard, look after our health and observe social distancing.

Later today I will search for expert videos and clinical / academic literature regarding the immune strengthening benefits of exercise. I may start a new thread, a positive thread, where we can find real, grounded, sane ways of supporting our communities, families, ourselves and the NHS by taking appropriate action. No clapping allowed.

didn't need traffic wardens, I'm sure they can come up with some emergency powers that give them grounds to grab all the mobile phone data to get a clearer picture on the compliance issues

It's easy to leave a phone at home plenty of older adults dont have one and this isnt a police state.

I have found the days I have not gone for a walk are the days that I have felt very down .
I do exercise at home and yes it makes me feel better but a brisk 15 minutes walk round the block does me the world of good.
In the winter I would always go for a 10 minute walk on my lunch break every day . The people that would never leave the office I found to be always ill very depressed unhappy people. This is just my opinion though but I feel exercise outside however brief is detrimental in our wellbeing in this pandemic.

Viral load appears to be very important in COVID19, just as it was with SARS

Spending time in spacious outdoor areas, maintaining physical distance, wearing masks and observing good hand hygiene does not absolutely eliminate the possibility of coming across a trace of the virus but it does eliminate the possibility of being exposed to a large dose of it---and it is the big doses of virus (high viral load) that appear to be causing the severe cases of COVID19.

Because when your body is exposed to a lot of virus at once, your immune system is often overwhelmed which can result in severe symptoms and even death. Whereas if you are exposed to a very small trace of the virus, your immune system will usually have a chance to work out how to tackle the virus effectively and get rid of it, which is believed to be a large part of the reason why so many people (probably 50% or more) have no symptoms, and much of the remaining half have only mild symptoms. People who have mild or asymptomatic cases due to low viral load and are also wearing a mask and keeping well away from others, are also only going to emit far less virus which will keep others safer from developing severe forms of the disease.

It might even turn out that it's actually better to expose yourself to really minuscule traces of the virus in this way, get a very mild case and develop immunity, rather than welding yourself into your home and then risking getting a really bad case (which will also make you more dangerous to others) when you are eventually forced to venture out (hmmmm.....).

My other experience is that kids sleep like shit when they get zero outdoor exercise (and no, jumping jacks in front of TV aerobics is not the same thing), and when kids sleep like shit, so do parents, and then everyone's immune systems start going down the toilet. I've had periods when I got no sleep due to teething babies etc.---as soon as my sleep went to pot, the cold sores and the styes and the boils would start, all first warning signs of a sagging immune system. I need my immune system fighting fit right now, so I'll be continuing to exercise in a very responsibility manner, including scrubbing hands before and after, mask on at all times, and keeping well away from others.

Very helpful, hooda. Most people in the UK are respecting the rules although the sensationalist press is choosing to present that differently.

Going out to exercise is very important and the state is not yet forcing you all out on a run but that might come!! Good time for a diet of course too particularly if food is hard to find for those over weight (and I would not mind losing a stone myself)

The viral load thing is really interesting...

Spending time in spacious outdoor areas, maintaining physical distance, wearing masks and observing good hand hygiene does not absolutely eliminate the possibility of coming across a trace of the virus but it does eliminate the possibility of being exposed to a large dose of it---and it is the big doses of virus (high viral load) that appear to be causing the severe cases of COVID19.

There's a Dr today advising people to avoid runners, particularly face on, because of the large volume of air they are expelling, risking the virus becoming aerosolised and exposing the passer by to a large dose of the virus. So maybe exercising in proximity to others isn't a good thing?

I'm also not convinced that encouraging serial couch potatoes to get out and do strenuous exercise is going to have all positive effects. Sure, exercise is good for your health but it can also cause harm. Excessive exercise actually lowers immunity doesn't it?

Most people in the UK are respecting the rules although the sensationalist press is choosing to present that differently

BBC South Today made very clear in its evening news yesterday evening that the rules had largely been adhered to. Just a couple of people playing football on Southampton common (and they might have still been family groups).

Excessive exercise actually lowers immunity doesn't it Yes, which was probably why that Italian marathon runner was so ill. Not that some of my running club are listening. Our coaches advised no more than 20 miles a week to help look after immunity. Strava reveals that quite a few are still doing 35-50 miles a week.

There's a Dr today advising people to avoid runners, particularly face on, because of the large volume of air they are expelling, risking the virus becoming aerosolised and exposing the passer by to a large dose of the virus I don't expel a lot of air when I am running but anyway, when I meet someone, if I can't get a decent distance away (eg because a car is coming and I can't get into the road) I pull my snood over my face as a face mask. I'm not sure a one-off blast of air from an almost certainly healthy runner is going to expose someone to a high dose of the virus though - it's NHS/medical workers who are getting high doses.

Viral load appears to be very important in COVID19, just as it was with SARS

I was debating this on another thread

Apparently the Oxford Nuffied study (IMMIC) says that the impact of viral load is uncertain.

FWIW I think we should assume that it is a likely causal factor and observe good hygiene in order to reduce the amount of virus we are exposed to.

It might even turn out that it's actually better to expose yourself to really minuscule traces of the virus in this way, get a very mild case and develop immunity, rather than welding yourself into your home and then risking getting a really bad case

This is what is known as a live vaccine

Nobody would advise anyone to attempt this at the moment unless under strict supervision.

It does make sense however to be as clean and fit as possible to give ourselves the best chance

There's a Dr today advising people to avoid runners, particularly face on, because of the large volume of air they are expelling, risking the virus becoming aerosolised and exposing the passer by to a large dose of the virus. So maybe exercising in proximity to others isn't a good thing?

Exercising in close proximity to others is definitely not a good thing. I go to a fairly isolated place and train hard. I stop if I see of hear people and give them time and space to pass before resuming training.

In my personal, recent experience, some of the most selfish, inconsiderate people around are joggers. What can you do if a jogger runs past you fast, exhaling as they do so? I mean you could trip them up or hit them with a pointy stick but then you get into trouble.

I have given up with joggers and avoid narrow pavements where I am likely to encounter them and not be able to avoid them safely.

I'm also not convinced that encouraging serial couch potatoes to get out and do strenuous exercise is going to have all positive effects. Sure, exercise is good for your health but it can also cause harm. Excessive exercise actually lowers immunity doesn't it?

This is actually a very good point.

There are lots of exercise videos on youtube, some are great, some are very poor. I'm off to exercise in a bit but we need an exercise thread where we support and encourage people to exercise in a way that is appropriate for their age and level of fitness.

Maybe instead of avoiding runners they should do some running themselves so as to optimise lung functioning and capacity!
I think it's a bit much when people who are disciplined and take care to preserve health are treated as spreaders of disease ☹️

I'm also not convinced that encouraging serial couch potatoes to get out and do strenuous exercise is going to have all positive effects. Sure, exercise is good for your health but it can also cause harm. Excessive exercise actually lowers immunity doesn't it?

Yeah I am just sticking to walking 3 miles or so a day which I think is probably OK, before all this I was training for a charity walk so trying to keep that up, even if doing less long walks

It's a bit much that runners are selfish and just run past others without moving and with no regard for social distancing. With their mouths open in the main too. This has been my experience of every runner I have passed during these restrictions. Also most cyclists on a towpath. I move, but they don't meaning it is nigh on impossible to be 2m apart. These people are selfish twats.