Is actively trying to conceive amid the current pandemic irresponsible?

[Skeeter2020]

After watching a discussion about this unfold on a whatsapp group this evening, I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts.

Irresponsible, maybe.
Stupid? Definately.

Do you really think that delaying for 3-6 months is going to stop a giant cohort of women becoming mothers? I notice that you haven’t acknowledged my comment about IVF clinics. They have taken the decision not to operate and this delay for a period of time....
In terms of the weight of my opinion, I take it then you place no weight on the multiple other people with children who have said exactly what I have?

Do you really think that delaying for 3-6 months is going to stop a giant cohort of women becoming mothers?

You don’t know very much about fertility, do you? There absolutely will be women who will miss the chance to be mothers because of this.

I didn’t comment about your thing about the IVF clinics as I didn’t think it was worth it. They are under orders from HFEA, who are in turn under orders from the government. Who will be wanting to maximise staffing for Corona, and minimise strain on the NHS. If some women and their life goals get thrown under the bus in the process the govt will be fine with that. I’m not.

Incidentally, some of the private clinics (ie whose staff can’t be redeployed to fight Corona like they can from the NHS units) aren’t happy with the decision.

In terms of the weight of my opinion, I take it then you place no weight on the multiple other people with children who have said exactly what I have?

No, I don’t. There are plenty of folk lacking empathy. Unfortunately.

I put off having dc until we were in a secure financial position, which meant waiting until my 30s, and knowing it could mean I'd struggle to get pregnant, which I did (it took several years).

If our financial situation had changed for the worse during the time we were ttc, whilst I'd have been devastated, we would've stopped, even knowing that it would've possibly meant not having dc at all.

No one can know what will happen, but I believe that you should take more than just a maternal/paternal desire into account when planning to have dc, which is what we did.

We'd actually given up trying and made our peace with it when I became pregnant the first time (I have had 2 successful pregnancies).

Ideally, I would've liked more than 2 dc, but we decided that would be a strain on our finances, as we then wouldn't have the buffer we had by only having 2, and that was important to us.
With what's happening now, and in the last recession, I'm glad we made that choice, but it wasn't an easy one at the time.

t I believe that you should take more than just a maternal/paternal desire into account when planning to have dc

Absolutely. But never having them on the basis of what ifs and a temporary situation is a bit drastic.

Oh come on, those of you suggesting it's just the same to plan a kid in these times of uncertainty (pandemic, global recession) compared to 'normal' times of uncertainty. In these chaotic times we have the 'normal' uncertainly plus all the other shit on top.

Would you be all for having a child in a war zone too?

The innate desire to become a mother should not be fulfilled at the expense of the kid's quality of life. Sorry if you don't like to hear that, but it's true.

The instinct to be a mother is really powerful, but it is not more important than being able to meet the needs of the hypothetical child.

We’re not saying it’s the same, Absentminded. If you read my posts I said it was sensible to hold off if you have time to. But if you are older, and son have time, then the risk/benefit assessment clearly changes. I also don’t agree that a child should never come into existence because of a temporary shit situation.

Why do you assume parents won’t be able to meet a child’s needs? Are none of the children alive today having their needs met, then? Their lives are certainly curtailed currently. But it’s very temporary in the context of a lifespan.

I know plenty about fertility. I asked if you thought there was a giant cohort. You responded with a statement that ‘absolutely’ there will be an (unquantified) number of women who will miss their chance.
Ultimately, there will be women who will continue to try during this time and still not conceive. So you can’t actually say for sure one way or another what would or wouldn’t have denied them that opportunity, which is obviously very sad.

Why does it matter to you if the cohort is ‘giant’? Does people’s pain only count to you if it affects lots of people, then? How odd.

Funnily enough, I haven’t conducted a survey of how many older women are actively ttc at present, though if you are truly interested I would suggest having a look at birth figures for recent years, broken down by maternal age, and do a rough extrapolation from there. If it matters.

And you might know about fertility issues as they affect you, but you very clearly are not clued up about matters affecting older women. Or you are completely lacking empathy. It’s one of the two.

So you can’t actually say for sure one way or another what would or wouldn’t have denied them that opportunity, which is obviously very sad.

We may not be able to put a precise figure on it (not sure why that matters), but stopping IVF will mean that some women will have been denied the opportunity, yes.

Why do you assume parents won’t be able to meet a child’s needs? Are none of the children alive today having their needs met, then? Their lives are certainly curtailed currently. But it’s very temporary in the context of a lifespan.

No, I did not say that parents of children today are not meeting their needs.

Honestly I think you are being incredibly naive if you are dead certain this is a temporary shit situation, but I understand you think this is all just a very fleeting blip. I am hoping against hope that things ease and there is no long lasting devastation, but right now - we don't know. I'm worried about the long term implications for accessible healthcare, for example. What would that mean for kids who are born with disabilities or health issues?

I'm type 1 diabetic. In many parts of the world, it's normal for a child to not live longer than a year or so after diagnosis, as families can't afford insulin. My experiences of illness shapes my experience, but there are numerous families with a chronically ill member. I guess it's different for those of you very confident that you and your family will never need acute or ongoing healthcare. That's just one facet of long term difficulties in relation to the pandemic.

Like I say, I hope collectively as a society we can figure this out and find a way forward. But we don't know what will happen. That's kind of my point about why it's irresponsible to conceive right now.

No, you’ve decided I’m lacking empathy because you disagree. That’s a different issue.
Ultimately, as I have said repeatedly, I am not advocating the decision is taken out of anyone’s hands 🤨You seem to be suggesting that because someone has the opinion it is irresponsible they then become personally responsible for denying multiple women the opportunity to be mothers.
Ultimately, if their fertility is so compromised due to age that that 3-6 months is going to make a difference I presume they will continue anyway regardless of what someone posted on an Internet forum.

No, you’ve decided I’m lacking empathy because you disagree. That’s a different issue.

No, that’s not the reason. I think you lack empathy because you fail to appreciate the imapct of this on older women and only think it matters if it affects large swathes of the population.

Absentminded I’m not saying we don’t be facing major issues going forward. I have a husband with asthma and COPD, a sister with type 1, a father with cancer and I used to have ME. So I’m no stranger to how limited and dire the NHS services can be already, let alone if budgets are cut further (not disparaging the staff here, to be clear, who by and large do a great job on tuppence hapenny of funding). And economically things could well be very tough.

But none of this is known, currently, at least not the extent of it. I am personally sceptical that we will be in lockdown for more than 12 weeks. Either there will be a treatment, or testing for antibodies, or it will be decided that the elderly and vulnerable should be shielded more drastically than now, but that younger and fitter folk should get back to it. I will eat my hat if the economy is allowed to shrink too much, or lockdown go on longer than that. We have a Tory government, after all.

I do agree that things could be very bleak, but I think I am more optimistic than you that a way will be found. I do appreciate that, for some, things will seem too bleak to chance having a child now. We all weigh up risk differently, which is fine.

I don’t fail to consider the impact on older women but again, you’re acting like Im suggesting women have been legally banned from conceiving. Having empathy for someone’s situation but not cheerleading their decisions are not mutually exclusive.

I think it depends on how old you are OP.

Women need to be made aware of the risks to make an informed choice. Personally I feel the rates of MC and stillbirths will increase due to either the mother having the virus, and also the fact that women simply aren’t getting adequate antenatal care as the NHS is in crisis and appointments are being cancelled and often being replaced with a phone consultation.

Also there will be a baby boom in December leading into next year as people are at home and may not be using adequate contraception, so maternity services will continue to be stretched. There’s already a shortage of midwives, and student midwives that are due to qualify this year are seeing their courses disrupted, and as a result there will be a lot of students who will not be able to complete the course this year meaning there will be a shortage of newly qualified midwives.

Also we don’t know how long it will take the NHS to recover. I’ve been told to expect it to last 6/8 months before some kind of normality resumes, so there may still be issues with the NHS and maternity services 9 months down the line.

Also we don’t know the impact that the virus has on babies that were conceived to women who had the virus or developed it in early pregnancy. Viruses can be passed on to the fetus and can cause MC, congenital deformities, low birth weight and stillbirths, likewise if the mother has a fever it can also cause the same issues, and the same if the mother’s oxygen levels are reduced.

I’m not intending to put anyone off TTC, however I think there are a lot of things to consider and you have to do what’s right for you, but you need to go into it knowing that maternity resources are already stretched and it’s not going to get better overnight.

Thank you @tolleshunt and @gyspywater. It's a really hard time for all of us, but my chance at being a mother is quickly running out. I won't stop trying now. I realize that I am very fortunate because I have the back up resources to pay for a child if the economy takes a down turn. I am incredibly grateful for that. But I don't have any children. I want to be a mother.

It is a difficult one, op. I feel sorry for those whose bodyclock is telling them they don't have long but, frankly, in my opinion it is quite irresponsible to try to conceive at this time. We don't know when this pandemic will end or what the country, the world, will be like when it is over. There must be other priorities at this time, we cannot just think of what we want.

Babies will be conceived by accident, that's life. there's no point in making more. The NHS is over stretched and likely to be for some time, if a person has a complicated pregnancy they will be cared for but why add to the burden.

@gypsywater age/fertility have nothing to do with it. Deliberately having a child not knowing that you will be able to provide that child with a good quality of life is irresponsible even if it’s your only chance to have one. I obviously wouldn’t presume to tell OP what to do (I’m sure a lot of people would be sufficiently confident in their ability to provide the child with an acceptable life in order to take the decision responsibly even at the moment).

Re no antenatal care notion - I was point blank refused antenatal care in London several years ago. The GP simply refused to refer me to a midwife. In the end I just did it privately. I wouldn’t be surprised if medical care was seriously compromised in the event of a major economic collapse or a prolonged series of outbreaks.

You're nuts if you don't already anticipate a baby boom in 9 months imo. First rule of any sort of social lock down. First babies of course, most existing parents are probs too demented to make new ones ;) We have midwives and infrastructure. Wouldn't be my choice to bring baby into world at that point but if it happens so be it. Wouldn't do it deliberately unless I had to though.

I had a baby in Jan and it's not a nice time to have a newborn. Although babies dont seem to be as susceptible I am terrified he catches it. I'm in the house all day every day with a toddler and newborn and no health visitor checks etc. My DH is stuck abroad. He has been made redundant and because we have been saving up to buy a house we have savings so not entitled to support so I'm going to have to work when DS is 3 months old so we don't lose every penny. I'm a nurse so you can imagine the risk of infection that I will be bringing home. We are having to move to a rented flat in the midst of all this but everything is a nightmare to sort just now (furniture/wifi etc).
Very much different from my carefree days with my firstborn going to cafes, baby groups, picnics in the park. If I had felt so down as I do now the first time I would have been seeking a lot of support but it's just not available and I think everyone is feeling like this these days.

I can’t see the future but it is currently a scary time to be pregnant. The scariest thing from my side is that we don’t know how this virus effects babies in the womb. I would wait until there is evidence showing it won’t affect them. Or at least wait until I got infected and got over it, if I’m in good health (after the peak of course). Those test are going to be available soon.

I’m currently pregnant and attended an antenatal appointment this past Friday and it was a ghost town there. Normally, you need to get there early to get a seat and only me and another woman was there then. I think the others had been given telephone appointments. I didn’t attend my last appointment as I was self isolating (dh had a fever), so I think I was given an appointment so they could do a physical check up.

Be prepared to be seen by ex-students who graduated early so missing some clinical experience. And who have been placed on covid 19 wards for a while. I say that as I hope they don’t force people to work there permanently but on rotation as I’m assuming a lot of them might prefer to work in other wards.

Deliberately having a child not knowing that you will be able to provide that child with a good quality of life

But no one ever knows that. I could get pregnant, have a baby, then lose my job, get cancer, die and have that child be taken into care?