Rishi Sunak speech....

[unhappyclap]

What are people thinking so far?

It would have been fairer to give everyone the same/similar amount of assistance, even if that was 60% or even 50% of wages.

We might then all stand a chance of getting through the next few months.

The self-employed are being treated like they're unemployed.

No, they are being treated as if they were self-employed. They are being offered boosted (by £1k a year) universal credit, not jobseekers’ allowance.

It's wrong, they've been pushed out of jobs that they had until the measures were introduced.

1. If you are self employed, you are not ‘in a job’. You are self employed. You run your own business.

1. Who has ‘pushed’ them out of a job? Mother Nature? You cannot blame the government for this.

1. It is not ‘wrong’. Restricting activities that might cause the disease to spread is absolutely the right thing to do. You appear to think that managing public health in a pandemic is an inconvenience. It is not.

iamthewombat stilldisappointed is not coming across as any of those things, just a daughter worrying about her father. You are the one coming across as rude and quite frankly heartless.

We should start a petition for the self employed to get 80% of their wages too! Anyone know how to do this ?

onetiredmummy13 there are a few petitions floating about on twitter

DianaT1969 The £2500 per worker is given to the employer, to retain their workers
It is not given directly to the employee

There is no equivalent for the self-employed person, because they don't employ anyone

The German govt has chosen to compensate the self-employed and micro-businesses as well,
but maybe the Uk Chancellor doesn't have sufficient funds for that
or the PM has made the political decision not to do so

However, self-employed and employees are 2 very different cases and are often treated differently because employees have much less control over what happens to them

I was self-employed many years ago for the greater freedom it gave me, but accepted that meant much greater risk and little or no safety net

Perhaps check your understanding of the word ‘rude’. I’m not using caps or making accusations.

As for ‘heartless’: what would you call somebody who defended a decision to go out to work for their own financial benefit, defying public health recommendations, knowing that it will cause the spread of disease and increase the death toll? What would the children and grandchildren of people dying of Coronavirus call them?

UC flaw re. self isolation. Looks like they havent updated their systems.

www.thecanary.co/trending/2020/03/20/the-dwp-is-in-chaos-over-coronavirus/

We should start a petition for the self employed to get 80% of their wages too

For the twentieth time, self employed people don’t have ‘wages’ because they are not employed. They make profits.

Emergency measures can’t wait for sole traders to draw up accounts and submit their tax returns. Benefits have been offered now, for peop,e affected now.

The PAYE reclaim system is going to be weeks for the first grants, end April for most.

I reckon the vast majority of self employed could produce some books by then. Whilst some have a pile of receipts in a shoe box many are far more organised, use book keeping software, etc. Use the most recent tax year for those who aren't running on April tax year. There are solutions.

Nobody is saying that employed people have to reduce their income to a pittance,or zero if they have a partner.

As for ‘heartless’: what would you call somebody who defended a decision to go out to work for their own financial benefit, defying public health recommendations, knowing that it will cause the spread of disease and increase the death toll?

I'd call those people desperate and they wouldn't be in a desperate position if the government treated them fairly

Iamthewombat
In response to your post of 23.43

1. The HMRC knows exactly what each SE earns as we submit a tax return each year.
2. SE people generally don't pay tax through PAYE, but two amounts in January and July. Tax codes are the same as employed people and NI is £15 per month = 9% of profits
3. SE people can't 'pick up where they left off as a rule' anymore than employed people can 'just get another job that's exactly the same pay' when they're made redundant
4. SE people pay tax and insurance, though are not under normal circumstances entitled to SSP, pension contributions from the govt, paid annual leave etc
5. Everyone, SE or employed, takes the risks and rewards of their business venture/career. One risk is losing your job - there are plans to financially compensate employed people now that that has happened, but not SE employed people
6. You've decided that the country 'can't afford' to support SE people, but can support employed people. What's that based on, do you mind me asking?

SE people don't seem to be asking to be 'top priority', just to have some sort of parity with employees.

In short, you're talking absolute rubbish and seem to know next to nothing about actually being self-employed.

You really don't get it do you Wombat.

I reckon the vast majority of self employed could produce some books by then

Even if they could, it is unlikely that HMRC could review them. They have one or two other things to deal with just now, and even in normal times they are not geared up to deal with everybody’s tax return simultaneously in a few weeks.

1. £15 a month + 9% of profits

@StillDisappointed I’m sure he said more was to be announced. I very much doubt he will invest this much in the working & hardly anything in SE. He will announce something Monday I’m so sure of it.

They’ve offered to give grants/loans to all businesses & no rates to be paid I believe for the rest of the year.
They are trying to support everyone but they can’t get an action plan together for everything in a week or so.

In short, you're talking absolute rubbish and seem to know next to nothing about actually being self-employed.

Nice try. However, as I noted earlier I was self-employed for years. Also, disappointingly first you, I’m a chartered accountant and employment tax specialist.

Who said that self-employed people don’t pay tax? I didn’t. I did, however, correctly note that an employed person on £25k will pay more income tax and NI than a sole trader earning £25k.

Where the hell is all this money coming from?

Of course use the most recent tax year to estimate future earnings. That's what the HMRC do to come up with the amount of tax that we pay each year.

SE's peoples 'profits' are their wages. That's why it's called being self-employed.

SE people submitted a tax return at the end of January for 2018/9. That's what's used to decide what tax we will pay in July and next January. Exactly the same system can be used to predict expected income 2019/20.

@Iamthewombat

Having to explain to someone over and over and over again exactly why the £400 pittance that their nearly 60yo father has been offered isn't enough & why he needs to continue to work is frustrating.
'Just take the benefits' is a vile sentiment to someone who has been placed into a state of destitution through no fault of their own.

To explain once more; The government have all but shut down London and in direct correlation to that my father now has no opportunity to earn a living. That is the governments problem, whether you agree or not. It's certainly not my fathers fault.
Are you trying to tell me that being a taxi driver isn't a job now?
He will continue to work. He will continue to attempt to earn enough money so that he can live comfortably as he deserves to do. If the government want him at home they need to offer him a hell of a lot more than £400pm.
It really is that simple.

You won't look at the other situations; just the very black and white view you have on the world. I am quite happy with making an 'exhibition' out of myself when it's showing you up to be a person lacking in compassion, humility and empathy.

I am incredibly upset at the lack of compassion. Individuals have shown themselves up to be unbelievably selfish.

"He is not going to be resigned to poverty"

He has become effectively unemployed;
It's utterly shit suddenly losing all your income, but benefits are not to keep you at your previous standard of living

The 2,500 per worker is for employers to retain staff, which doesn't apply in his case

Stilldisappointed. A serious suggestion for your Dad, Morrisons supermarket is recruiting drivers.
Probably Tescos Ocado etc are too.

"If the government want him at home"

If they really do, then they will pass laws to stop him

By the sounds of things though, he's earning almost nothing going out, after running costs
So he may find he's not making a profit

The HMRC (sic) knows exactly what each SE earns as we submit a tax return each year.

No, they know what you earned last year. That may be very different to what you earn this year. What’s to stop people inflating estimates? Nothing.

SE people can't 'pick up where they left off as a rule' anymore than employed people can 'just get another job that's exactly the same pay' when they're made redundant

If there are fewer employers left, there will be fewer jobs. A plumber can just start work again and start earning. Somebody who does office admin can’t.

Everyone, SE or employed, takes the risks and rewards of their business venture/career.

Not so. If you are an employee, you don’t get a share of future growth or profit. You just get your salary. You don’t share in the risks and rewards of the enterprise. If you did, you’d have no rights under employment law.

Iamawombat I don't believe you.

Saying that there's no way of verifying how much SE people have earned is just daft for a start. What do you think the purpose of a tax return is?