Rishi Sunak speech....

[unhappyclap]

What are people thinking so far?

They’d be more likely to say ok three day week rather than change the salary. Not that it matters to the employer the person isn’t working.

What’s to stop a bar making all their staff redundant now? Are the employers supposed to make up the 20% of wages, because if so they might sack people? Or do people just get the 80% from the govt.....which at least I guess will guarantee jobs?

Just asking because in the news a pub owner said he thought he was going to have to sack staff anyway. I don’t understand why, he said he coildnt afford to keep them on.

Housing benefit rates are being increased to help with this. The new rates will be equal to the amount needed to cover the full rent for 30% of the local rental properties.

@LoudBatPerson, Local Housing Allowance is already set at 30% of the local market rates. However, in 2016 the Conservative govt froze housing benefit so it dropped below the 30% if landlords increased their rent. The freeze was meant to be finally lifted in April 2020. This announcement is effectively reversing the effect of George Osborne’s harsh freeze on the benefit introduced in 2016. I also note that until 2011 the local housing allowance was set at 50% of local market rates. The Condem 2011 welfare reform act reduced it to 30% of local market rate.

I am glad those on PAYE are getting good protection but it does sound self employed and those on zero contracts (numbers of which have gone up a lot last few years) are not protected anywhere near PAYE workers.

What’s to stop a bar making all their staff redundant now?

Nothing, hence the appeal for kindness at the end of the speech.

I give up trying to get any compassion out of people, I really do.

Yes I blame to government, they managed to bail out huge businesses and allocate them millions in funding.

My dad has insurance, it just didn't cover a pandemic.
No one could have planned for this. No one can plan/save for an unprecedented situation that will go on for an unspecified amount of time. Everyone should be on an even footing.
The government has helped everyone out but shat on those that are SE.
Now my nearly 60yo dad, with 2 illnesses that put him at risk will still be going out in his taxi tomorrow - putting himself at risk, to try and earn cash.

£400 a month isn't enough. He has bills that were more than comfortable for him while he was earning are now unaffordable. He will be plunged into poverty.
It wasn't his fault, it wasn't anyone's fault. Yet individuals are being treated so differently.

It's wrong.

To add; London will be empty and I've told him not to risk his health; but he is distraught.

Has worked since the age of 16, never relied on the government for anything. He quite likes his job.
He thought his job was secure in that there'll always be people in London needing to go somewhere.

He's furious that he's been told to basically stay at home and accept that he's going to be plunged into poverty. So he still wants to go out to work.

My dp is freelance and he's had all his upcoming work cancelled. He's trying to find work but we need to start applying for the help offered. Should he apply for ssp or uc? The gov website says you only apply for ssp if you're sick or self isolating so I'm a bit confused.

StillDisappointed sorry to hear about your dad it's so sad. I fear this will be a lot of people.

I'm self employed. It's the lack of compassion that shocks me on here sometimes. I've gone from earning £2000 a month on average to £0 in two nights. We're allowed to be upset at the prospect of not being able to afford the lives we've made for ourselves.

I've also paid into two insurances but still not covered either. Always pay my tax & NI. I'm devastated & worried. Have a little buffer but it won't last long with the cost of living.

Just wanted to share some compassion
It's been a long few nights. Thoughts to everyone who's worrying how they'll manage whatever situation they've found themselves in by no fault of their own.

I will save more now definitely.

Me too, 100%. If I’m fortunate enough to come out of this on the other side that is.

Increase in remote working more people may consider moving away from cities. Will we turn away from consumerism?

A really interesting idea, but I think it’s more likely that people will simply revert to type.

Has worked since the age of 16

With respect, has he not saved for a rainy day? This is it. I had a rainy day three years ago and couldn’t work for five months. I used savings to see me through and top up the jobseekers’ allowance.

never relied on the government for anything

Nor have many other people, but you believe that the government should pay him 80% of his earnings. I am confused.

He's furious that he's been told to basically stay at home and accept that he's going to be plunged into poverty. So he still wants to go out to work.

But he can’t, because it is a public health risk. He must see that?

@pleasestoprainingplease Thank you. Yes, the be kind mantra from a month ago seems to have disappeared.
No one care about others' circumstances as long as they're ok.

I am so sorry to hear you are going through this too. It is horrendous and the lack of support makes the situation more disheartening.
I hope you manage to muddle your way through somehow. Sending you lots of luck. Take Care.

@Iamwombat
After paying out for his wife's funeral just over a year ago, and both his parents funerals in the 8 months before that, moving out of the rented home he shared with my mum to somewhere smaller (rented again) and taking a small amount of time off whilst adjusting to his new medication - his rainy day fund is slightly depleted. Can't really hold that against him, can you?
He's had plenty of rainy days.

Nope, not 80% of his earnings. Just a fair amount that will help him over this slump like the majority of people have received in the chancellors plans today.
People really can't stand the idea of people being equal in situations like this can they? They always think someone should be worse off.

He doesn't care. He is being plunged into poverty so he will continue to work until he possibly can't anymore; he refuses to be resigned to UC. He's done nothing to deserve it, it's not his fault and to be honest he can't afford to live off of £400pm.
Would you rather him just retreat to his home (not for long), shut up and wait for the inevitable? Not going to happen.

Also, Wombat, you think he's a public health risk? There are SE people out there who'll have to continue to work even if they have symptoms because (with the governments offering today) the cannot afford to do anything else.

Maybe that's what it'll take to get people listening.

People really can't stand the idea of people being equal in situations like this can they? They always think someone should be worse off.

Actually, no. But think spiteful thoughts if it makes you feel better.

Would you like me to explain exactly why self-employed people who can’t work during the pandemic (and that means people who are not on PAYE, and don’t operate through a limited company with their own payroll scheme) won’t be given the same help as employed people who would otherwise have been laid off by employers who can’t afford to keep them on?

All of these things have been mentioned elsewhere on the thread.

1. There is no way of verifying the earnings of truly self-employed people, unlike employed people on PAYE. What’s to stop people making up an estimate of double or triple their actual earnings? Plenty would.

1. Employed people pay more tax and NI through PAYE than an equivalently-remunerated self employed person.

1. The support for employees helps to preserve jobs and employers. Both vital to get the economy up and running again. Self employed people can pick up where they left off, as a rule. Once a company employing people goes under, it’s not so easy to se up again and it might discourage future enterprise and job creation.

1. This is what benefits are for, and benefits are being offered.

1. As a self employed person, you take the risks and rewards of your choice of business structure.

1. The country cannot afford it. We’ll be paying for the current measures for years to come. The treasury need to prioritise. Not everyone can be top priority.

Also, Wombat, you think he's a public health risk?

Yes. He is a London cab driver. London is the centre of the outbreak. How many passengers will be in his cab each day? How do we know they are not infected, or have not touched a surface infected with CV and failed to wash their hands afterwards? How many people will the virus be transmitted to?

There are SE people out there who'll have to continue to work even if they have symptoms because (with the governments offering today) the cannot afford to do anything else. Maybe that's what it'll take to get people listening.

That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve read today, against stiff competition. Yeah, we’ll spread the disease because you won’t give us exactly what we want! That will show ya!

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

He's not going to work because the government hasn't given him what he 'wants'
He can't afford to stay at home. What is it that you don't understand about that?
£400 isn't enough for him to be able to stay at home. He is not going to be resigned to poverty so he is going to continue to try and earn money.

People with symptoms who'll have to keep working because they cannot afford to stay at home.

It's not about spite - it's about trying to live. I don't know why it's so difficult for you to comprehend that.

There are also plenty of small businesses where the owner is self employed - right now their staff are better off than them. Benefits aren't available if you have a working spouse. That's being recognised in the way PAYE are being handled.

A huge proportion of SE people are about to hit tax year end, let them submit their tax returns and then use those numbers?

Maybe all these employees should have put some money away for a rainy day you know like a once in a century pandemic that locks down whole countries and is covered by next to no business insurance policies.
We pay the same income tax rates as everybody else. "how do they know what you earn" ummm tax returns ever heard of those?
You wanna play the vital card alot of these self employed people youre so willing to drive the bus over are the electricians, plumbers, gas fitters that keep your homes lit, warm and with working sanitation. Self employed people cant just "pick up where they left off" when they have been decimated by trying to pay living and business costs on fuck all. My expenses don't stop because the countries in lock down vehicles, professional fees, insurances still have to be paid for. People aren't asking for everything to be covered just not to be treated as second class when they are the backbone of the countries workforce.

I don't know why it's so difficult for you to comprehend that.

Here we go. Anybody who doesn’t agree with you is ‘deliberately obtuse’ or ‘cannot comprehend’.

A huge proportion of SE people are about to hit tax year end, let them submit their tax returns and then use those numbers?

Emergency measures can’t wait for sole traders to draw up accounts and submit their tax returns. Benefits have been offered now, for peop,e affected now.

As for ‘can’t afford not to work so I’m going in anyway’: how much patience do you think the Italians, French and Spanish would have with people saying that? It’s a global health emergency. It’s difficult for everybody and to some extent we all have to suck it up. Unless you want the NHS to be overwhelmed, and for people to lose older family members. What’s worse? A few months on benefits or horrific scenes like those in Italy?

So those who are SE don't deserve the same security that their job will be ok after this shitstorm?

My dad gives his cab back to the garage, alongside every other struggling cab driver, the garage has no money coming in and has to close. Once this situation is sorted the garages have either had to close or gone bust so there's no cabs for drivers to rent.
That's the proprietors job, their employees and the cab drivers out of a job. Or is that not important?

The self-employed are being treated like they're unemployed. It's wrong, they've been pushed out of jobs that they had until the measures were introduced.
They're not work shy, they are out of luck in the exact same way employees are and deserve to be treated with the same compassion.

If the country can't afford it, then why are the offering such high amounts to employees? Why not help everyone who's been affected by this situation? Would you not agree that a better way to do things?

We are not going to agree because you're contorting your argument to try and push SE people to accept sub-par help for a situation that's not of their own creation.

You don't seem to understand the implications on their side of the coin and instead of trying to empathise and realise why people like my dad have to work, you go on about public health risk.

What else is he meant to do? He can't survive on £400 a month. He physically can't. So what's your suggestion?

Oh my goodness. ITS NOT ENOUGH TO LIVE ON.

And he's not going to sit indoors, festering and suffering on an amount he cannot afford to because Wombat says so.
Millions of people are in the same position. They can't afford it and unless something is put in place so that they can, they will continue to work.

We don't all have to suck it up because a huge chunk of people won't notice the effects at all.

I want my dad to have enough money to be okay, that's what he wants to. Which is exactly why he'll be back out working tomorrow.

You’re becoming over-excited, incoherent and rude now. I get that you’re upset about your father’s situation, but you’re making an exhibition of yourself now.

Whilst I’m not a Tory supporter I think RS came across really well and a candidate for PM

However I’m not sure if this country will ever have a non white PM - just my honest opinion