How are the brexiteers feeling?

[Rhubarbpeony]

The U.K. will face delays in getting the coronavirus vaccine as a result of our having left the EU. Now that we’re staring down the barrel of tangible consequences for that decision, how are the turkeys who voted for Christmas feeling?

@SoupDragon

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/why-brexit-will-delay-uk-getting-vaccine-and-cost-more

If your view is that the EU will keep treating us like a member state even though we aren’t one, I would love to know why.

They aren’t going to make it difficult - they just aren’t going to go out of their way to make it easy

You know that is exactly the same as making it difficult, right?

Well, no, because it's the British electorate who chose not to keep the country in the system that makes it easy.

I've never understood this concept that in some way the EU would be acting disagracefully by choosing to prioritise EU members over non-members in all contexts. Why on earth would they do anything else? It's like complaining about the fact that, after you've cancelled your membership of your local gym, they won't let you in to use their facilities without charge.

I’m happy to discuss but you are not offering anything concrete, just a flaky ’could’ ‘might’ ‘perhaps’ article from the Guardian and trying to make it relevant to current coronavirus situation - it’s not.

If your view is that the EU will keep treating us like a member state even though we aren’t one, I would love to know why.

I never said that. I would love to know why you think I did.

What I said was that no country in their right mind is going to make it difficult for other countries to access a Covid-19 vaccine, be that the U.K., the US, Australia, Tibet...

What truly pisses me off about this situation is the fact the E.U. are trying to use it to blackmail us into signing up for regulatory alignment ie not leaving the E.U. at all.

Then you can unclench, Masaka. There's nothing in that article to suggest the EU is doing any such thing.

Nor is there any suggestion that the EU will deliberately withhold the vaccine.

As I understand it, there are two issues for the UK.

One is that we have already left the bulk buying and quick approval mechanism, so will have to buy at higher cost, unless for some reason we can strike a similar deal with the pharmaceutical company (they might agree, but why would they? And the haggling itself could take time).

The other is that we are soon to leave the drug-approval mechanism and don't yet have our own mechanism in place. We may not get our own mechanism in place before a vaccine is developed.

At that point, IIUC, we have the following choices:
a) ask doctors to use medicines which haven't been tested or licensed here;
b) not use any new medicines until the bureaucracy has been set up and the medicines tested and licensed;
or the vastly more likely
c) chose to piggyback on another country or bloc's testing and licensing system, and recognise drugs for use here which have been licensed by that system.

We could chose which country/bloc to follow. It's not up to the country/bloc to yay or nay whether we follow them.

So tell me why you think these experts are wrong? Tell me why you think the EU is going to treat us as a member state when we aren’t one. I’m following the clear, evidenced expectations of experts. Tell me why you think they’re wrong?

I've never understood this concept that in some way the EU would be acting disagracefully by choosing to prioritise EU members over non-members in all contexts.

Because it's a fucking worldwide pandemic. It's not exactly an ordinary situation is it? Not the same as being able to bulk buy HRT.

It's hardly the same as a gym membership. FFS

I'm out. This is ridiculous.

Oh, and FWIW I voted remain.

In fact, the only actor so far who has suggested doing anything to withhold a vaccine is Donald Trump, who attempted to get a German pharmaceutical company to give exclusive rights on a future vaccine to the US.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-vaccine-trump-us-cases-germany-carevac-a9403646.html

I don't doubt the US would then have made the vaccine available to other countries – after adding a large slice to the price.

I never said that. I would love to know why you think I did.

What I said was that no country in their right mind is going to make it difficult for other countries to access a Covid-19 vaccine, be that the U.K., the US, Australia, Tibet...

Ok, let me make it simpler.

The EU has the EMA, which has a mechanism for cheaply and quickly purchasing large quantities of vaccines. We have left the EMA. We no longer benefit from that mechanism. This will mean it takes longer and costs more for us to get vaccines from their developers than it would if we were still in the EU.

The EU is not going to withhold vaccines (not something they have the power to do) or deliberately make it more difficult for us to access them. But they aren’t going to go out of their way to include us in a mechanism we chose to leave either, because the choice to leave was ours. We are no longer a member state and they are not going to treat us like one.

This is not about some nefarious EU plot to blackmail the U.K. or make our lives more difficult. It is simply that we are no longer a part of the organisation that facilitates access to vaccines.

Do you understand?

I’m interested to see what happens to the EU after all this calms down. If anything this has highlighted that the EU is not one homogenous entity ready to help each other out in their moment of need, but a group of individual nations not willing to share masks and equipment to stop fellow Europeans from dying. When all this is over the Italians will want out.

Not seen the EU do much of anything so far

Oh what’s that noise I hear? It’s several EU states shutting their borders.

Oh the irony.

frangipani you didn't see/hear the EU press conference then?

Whatever the EU are doing now it's not really working:

04 FEB 2020
"200-Plus Products Are In Short Supply In Most EU Countries"

"As efforts continue to find ways of mitigating medicine shortages, a European survey has found not only that the situation is worsening, but that efforts to improve things are hindered by the patchwork of different rules on substitution and importation across the EU."

pink.pharmaintelligence.informa.com/PS141621/Drug-Shortage-Crisis-Worsens

Rhubarbpeony. You are pitiful if you have to bring Brexit into this. 🙄

OP - The article you have quoted uses the words may, could and might, so could happen, might happen and may happen are completely different to will happen.

Sorry, I forgot that Brexiteers don’t accept the well researched and credible views of independent experts!

An expert but not an independent one -

Professor Martin McKee (lead name on the Guardian article) ran 'NHS for a People's Vote' - an anti-Brexit campaign group. His Twitter account has the EU flag as its background;

www.nhsforpv.co.uk/core_team

@Flaxmeadow
Not seen the EU do much of anything so far

The Commission has today taken steps to make available 37 billion euro from the EU budget to fight the Coronavirus crisis under its Coronavirus Response Investment Initiative.
ec.europa.eu/info/news/commission-acts-make-available-37-billion-euro-eu-budget-address-coronavirus-2020-mar-13_en

If the Italians mass produce a vaccine first, their priority will be vaccinating Italians. EU membership or not. The same as every other country. The formula will be shared, but it's naive to think that a country won't prioritise it's own citizens.