Raging at Boris Johnson's irresponsible response to Covid 19

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BJ said I must level with you, I must level with the British public: many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time

How fucking dare he. This kind of phrase belongs in a rousing speech where the public are asked to come together to do what we can to help prevent those deaths. e.g. not going to large events, doing social distancing.

Not one which says "business as usual".

There was a government adviser on the radio saying they've not banned sporting events because they're in the open and in sunlight.

What about those events undercover? Or after dark? If that's the case why aren't they banned?

They're saying they're acting on scientific advice, but they're adding a layer of interpretation which is about what they think is possible.

They lack faith in their ability to communicate what needs to be done to the population and they think we're all idiots who won't do it, basically. So they've taken the decision that they can't help people dying.

I don't know on what basis BJ and his government is making decisions, but it's not with our best interests at heart.

It's a "don't panic"'message from a government scared and disrespectful of the population, not leadership in a time of crisis.

Fucking raging.

Plan

The very clear guidance from the WHO earlier this week was that those countries who had taken robust action on this (ie China and South Korea) had stopped it. In China new diagnoses have virtually dwindled to nothing.

Obviously there are differences between what a near totalitarian state can do and what a democracy can do and its much harder to contain people in a democracy where people are less used to having their freedoms curtailed. For example in China people who were either known or suspected to have the virus were forcibly separated from their families. But it's clearly not the case that you can't stop it. It depends how far you're prepared to go to do this.

I'm not saying that everyone with a temperature should be rounded up and penned into a stadium somewhere but there is a middle ground. South Korea and Singapore seem to have occupied this somewhat better, with spot testing etc.

Its very clear to me that the UK government isn't even attempting to contain it, its simply saying it can't do anything and we need to suck it up and watch dies in the family members die, in the interests of the greater population. Which is exactly the kind of approach one would expect from a totalitarian state. It's a fucking scandal.

In China new diagnoses have virtually dwindled to nothing.

Isn't the point that this means China is now subject to the possibility/likelihood of a second wave though?

The Prime Minister is following the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Officer.

Would you prefer him to ignore them?

Nicola Sturgeon is hardly his greatest fan, but she attended the Cobra meeting where the government's strategy was agreed and has been entirely supportive.

Frankie “ I never want to hear “following the science” ever again”

What would you like to hear instead? Following the science has helped treat so many illnesses.

WhatKatyDidNot

A second wave is not a given, its a hypothesis. And in any case if you're going to have a second wave of coronavirus isn't it better for people not to have needlessly become ill and at worst, died, in a first? I don't really follow this logic that a second wave will be better if a first is worse.

coronabeer The Chief Scientific and Chief Medical Officer are both political appointees.

The World Health Organisation I find much more compelling than two people who are working to the agenda of the UK government.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and both have good credentials but both are following a political as well as a medical agenda.

He's flouting the advice of the WHO.

The idea that a deadly virus should be allowed to run rampant now in order to build immunity is fucking stupid. What the vast majority of experts are saying is that we need to put control measures in place to fight it, or at the very least to buy time to prepare.

A vaccine is probably at least a year away, but an antiviral drug could become available much sooner. There are indications that one in particular, which was unsuccessfully trailed as an Ebola treatment, is capable of treating Covid 19. Still early days, and there are no guarantees, but it's possible we'll get a drug that will help a significant number of people to overcome the virus.

Why on earth wouldn't you try to slow this thing down?

The Chief Scientific Officer and Chief Medical Officer are not political appointees, they are independent advisors whose advice is being followed by the devolved governments as well as the UK government.

Are you claiming that the Prime Minister somehow predicted this pandemic and got cooperative placemen in post, ready to deliberately give misleading advice to the populace with the explicit aim of causing as many deaths as possible? Deaths which, incidently, are likely to be concentrated among the elderly, the group most likely to vote for the present aand previous incumbents?

Absolutely right corona. The OP is mistaking our permanent civil service for the Trump administration.

And from what I can see from the WHO website, the government is following their advice:
www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

Basically, it says wash hands, avoid close contact, avoid touching face, cough or sneeze into tissues, stay at home if you feel unwell. Which is UK government advice.

@coronabeer

That's advice for the general public, not for national governments

The WHO have also repeatedly pointed out the importance of containment and social distancing, and have been crying out for governments to take drastic action. They have praised the actions of China, Singapore and South Korea and have been begging other countries to learn the lessons. They stated that one of the key reasons they declared a pandemic is because so many countries are not taking the necessary actions.

But Bozo says carry on as normal and the British buy every last word

Wake up.

Coronabeer, I was puzzled to hear that the government is contravening WHO as well, thanks for the link.

@AutumnRose1 it’s turning into a stock phrase for any question that can’t be easily answered. I agree that there is science in this, and am grateful for it but this is also an unprecedented situation. It could turn out to be a cop out answer, but we don’t know yet. Every day is changing.

@peeledplumtomatoes All we can do is manage the spread

That’s such a great idea. How might we do that? Eh maybe tell everyone who can work from home to work from home to minimise people interacting and commuting, maybe we could cancel concerts and sporting events where thousands of people are in close quarters. So much that could be done but isn’t being done.

No one has the god given right to be able to attend a concert or sporting event. Or to go to a nightclub. That would be such an easy win to flatten the curve. I don’t understand why the above wasn’t announced today.

AutumnRose1

Maybe read up on what the WHO have been advising governments to do.

Christ.

@coronabeer

The CMO is appointed by the government. It’s a political appointment.

Me too. All they need to do is a 2 week 'stay-at-home' rule. Most people will either be fine or have caught it and know to self-isolate for longer after that. It would stop it from spreading and isolate cases.

Well I think everyone is rather missing the point-a certain Mr Cummings is actually in charge. Therefore maybe it's time for our press to ask our unelected actual puppet master, when the British public may be helped?!!!

FFS, the CMO is a civil servant.

CMO Professor Whitty is a consultant in infectious diseases at the Hospital for Tropical Diseases and in acute medicine at University College Hospital and professor of public and international health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine (LSHTM).

But clearly Boris Johnson would be much better off taking advice from you lot, because you read something on a website somewhere.

And for reasons that have yet to be explained, leading politicians from all parties and regions in the UK seem content to follow the advice of these nefarious "political appointees". Or is that something to do with Cummings and mind control and something like that?

Sakura, I see.

But what I can’t see is how long WHO expect those measures to be in place?

Isla “ All they need to do is a 2 week 'stay-at-home' rule”

And after that two weeks, what happens?

I dont think bj is wrong at all. He is right. People will die. Its out in society its inevitable many people will get it and many of them will die. Im starting to think i may have it as dps close workmate went off sick today with a sore throat high temp and severe aches and now i am having shortness of breath and an occassional cough and sore throat developing. But this cobra meeting took on expert advice. It wasnt just bj in a room alone guessing stuff and deciding on his own. Its not the governments fault people are thick as shit and will continue to go out with virus symptoms to infect everyone as they need to work/go the shop/attend events etc. We still have an economy to run and the world will still turn.

the UK government isn't even attempting to contain it, its simply saying it can't do anything and we need to suck it up and watch dies in the family members die, in the interests of the greater population. Which is exactly the kind of approach one would expect from a totalitarian state. It's a fucking scandal

This.

And this really is my last word, because it's a waste of time arguing, but what are people going to do if they don't go to clubs and sporting events and the like? Are they going to sit at home, alone rather than go to the pub or the cinema or whatever? Or even just their friend's house? Where they will be in even closer contact, for longer. Bearing in mind that this situation is expacted to go on for months?

Then there's the economic cost. How many businesses will go under without customers? How many people lose jobs? This isn't suggesting that money is more important than lives, but rather that the country needs money to run public services and the NHS and the worse the economic shock, the less money there will be next winter.