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Raging at Boris Johnson's irresponsible response to Covid 19

292 replies

somanydevices · 12/03/2020 18:15

BJ said I must level with you, I must level with the British public: many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time

How fucking dare he. This kind of phrase belongs in a rousing speech where the public are asked to come together to do what we can to help prevent those deaths. e.g. not going to large events, doing social distancing.

Not one which says "business as usual".

There was a government adviser on the radio saying they've not banned sporting events because they're in the open and in sunlight.

What about those events undercover? Or after dark? If that's the case why aren't they banned?

They're saying they're acting on scientific advice, but they're adding a layer of interpretation which is about what they think is possible.

They lack faith in their ability to communicate what needs to be done to the population and they think we're all idiots who won't do it, basically. So they've taken the decision that they can't help people dying.

I don't know on what basis BJ and his government is making decisions, but it's not with our best interests at heart.

It's a "don't panic"'message from a government scared and disrespectful of the population, not leadership in a time of crisis.

Fucking raging.

OP posts:
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somanydevices · 12/03/2020 21:46

Scathing article:

How the government are playing Russian Roulette with the public's lives by ignoring the World Health Organization's advice on containment
Full text:

This is something that a lot of people haven't woken up to yet. The World Health Organization's position on coronavirus is clear - it can and must be controlled, suppressed, contained, pushed back, got on top of...choose whichever form of words you prefer. They point to China and South Korea as examples of countries that had significant outbreaks and still got the situation back in control.

The UK government are ignoring that advice. The view of the government's advisers (which the likes of Johnson, Cummings and Hancock are all too eager to accept) is that containment isn't possible and that we therefore shouldn't even try. We should instead deliberately have a large-scale 'managed epidemic' that affects a huge percentage of the population and thus builds up 'herd immunity' so there's much less chance of a second outbreak. That will condemn untold numbers of people to a needless death. The excuse for this utter insanity is that the NHS will be better equipped to deal with the epidemic in the summer than it would be if there's a second wave next winter.

If you want to know what a 'managed epidemic' will actually look like in this country, take a look at the situation in Italy, where the health system is already in virtual collapse in spite of the fact that the numbers infected are still relatively small compared to what we'd be facing here at the height of an epidemic. In a nutshell, a 'managed epidemic' is in current circumstances a contradiction in terms. The NHS is not equipped to cope with it in summer any more than it is in winter.

Who is more to blame for this impending catastrophe - the ministers, or their advisers? Ultimately it comes from the advisers (particularly the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser), but it's not hard to see why it suits the Tories down the ground to go along with it. The alternative is to face a much longer period of disruption to keep the virus under control - in other words something akin to the situation in China and South Korea at the moment. And that would get in the way of Johnson's plans for a glorious post-Brexit future, which is what he'd much rather be getting on with. That's essentially what he meant the other week by his jaw-dropping musings about "taking coronavirus on the chin" and getting it over and done with by letting it move through the population. That might suit him, but I don't think it suits the rest of us.

So what about the argument that the containment achieved in China and South Korea is a) not replicable here, and b) not even sustainable in those countries anyway in the context of a pandemic? It's worth looking in detail at what the WHO have actually said about how containment worked in China. I particularly recommend this interview with Bruce Aylward, who led the WHO's mission to the country. He makes clear that in most of China containment wasn't achieved by total lockdown, but by the same public health measures that can be applied anywhere - closing of large gatherings, large-scale testing, fast and meticulous tracing and isolation of close contacts, and above all a high level of public awareness about the virus so that ordinary people can be used as a surveillance system. It's exactly that high level of vigilance that will enable the Chinese to smother any fresh outbreak much more quickly - and just in case they're unable to do that, they're also using the time they've bought to dramatically build up the capacity of hospitals. They're also testing and quarantining arrivals from other countries to prevent the virus being imported back in. These are all steps we could take here if we actually got the virus under control by social distancing measures, and by ramping up testing to South Korean levels and tracing all the contacts quickly.

Instead, the government are trying to put you in a trance by making you think that what they are about to do by design is completely unavoidable. The most despicable thing Matt Hancock said yesterday (and it was dutifully parroted by Robert Peston as if it was fact) was that the WHO's characterisation of the outbreak as a "pandemic" meant they were saying that nothing could stop it and that it would now reach every corner of the globe. He must have known that was a lie when he said it - because in their press conference, the WHO were at pains to point out that the word "pandemic" was NOT an excuse for governments to give up on containment efforts and that they did NOT believe the virus would affect every part of the world, as long as the correct steps were taken. They even specifically made the point that any government that gives up on containment and moves wholesale to "mitigation" will effectively be creating a situation where the health system will be overwhelmed.

If you agree with me that it would be better to put up with a year or two of moderate disruption rather than have God knows how many pointless deaths over the next few months, you could think about contacting your MP or MSP - in some cases, they may not even know that what is being presented to them as "the best scientific advice" is actually completely at odds with the WHO's directives. Another thing you can do is keep an eye on Rory Stewart's Twitter account and retweet some of the things he's saying to ensure they reach the maximum audience. I know I've criticised him many times in the past, but at the moment he does seem to be the only senior politician who truly "gets it

article link

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PlanDeRaccordement · 12/03/2020 21:57

I don’t think the U.K. response of BJs response is irresponsible.
It’s a pandemic. People will die. You cannot “prevent” any deaths by quarantine or isolation- it’s too late for that. And it will be almost a year before a vaccine is developed.

Literally the number of ventilators that the NHS has per capita compared to other countries will determine your death rate.

You can’t “contain” the virus when it’s already out in the public and nationwide.

I don’t agree that the U.K. is ignoring the WHO. You are simply panicking and saying that BJ has god like powers by saying he can “save” everyone from the virus. He can’t. No one can. People will die.

I might be one of them as I am in a high risk category. So it’s not that anyone is expendable, just that there is not much that can be done against the virus except to get you on a ventilator until you fight through it.

peeledplumtomatoes · 12/03/2020 22:04

Plan, I agree. Nothing can be done, the virus is out there and as long as it has a host ie a human being, it will survive and spread. All we can do is manage the spread to enable the NHS to cope.

People will die. It's harsh but it's evolution and survival of the fittest.

DesdemonaDryEyes · 12/03/2020 22:08

Those most at risk should self isolate.

AutumnRose1 · 12/03/2020 22:09

Plan

Agree. I’m also high risk and so is mum.

PlanDeRaccordement · 12/03/2020 22:09

Here is a chart of what the U.K. delay strategy will do. It’s not quite nothing, as it is estimated it will cut deaths by a third. It’s about slowing the epidemic so the NHS is not overwhelmed.

Raging at Boris Johnson's irresponsible response to Covid 19
AutumnRose1 · 12/03/2020 22:10

And what the hell, to really put the cat among the pigeons...

The earth is fighting back against overpopulation. The next pandemic may be much worse. Certainly if you’d told me a pandemic was coming, I’d have expected much worse than this.

OneTimePrepper · 12/03/2020 22:11

So what are you lot suggesting exactly? They said there was minimal evidence that largescale shutting of schools and sporting events would do anything to significantly reduce transmission. Whereas it would prevent NHS staff with medics getting to work, and could potentially mean people who work at sporting events dont get paid. We need to be mindful that if people dont earn money they will not be able to afford to eat. There are many of people that have no savings and its not as easy as wiring them some money to tide them over. We need to avoid destroying the economy too early. You run the risk of vast civil unrest which is something we cannoy afford to deal with at this time.

OneTimePrepper · 12/03/2020 22:13

@peeledplumtomatoes
Totally agree. I dont understand why people are so upset the PM has said people will die. Being honest is 100% the right thing to do.

Ineverdidmind · 12/03/2020 22:15

Agree Plan.

I appreciate Boris J not sugar coating things and that the experts were given time to explain their plan.

Makes sense to me.

Jellykat · 12/03/2020 22:16

Funny how other countries are managing it OneTimePrepper, presumably all the other countries dont know what Boris does aye?.. Yep, they're all wrong, and him and his cronies are spot on Hmm

somanydevices · 12/03/2020 22:19

Nothing can be done, the virus is out there and as long as it has a host ie a human being, it will survive and spread. All we can do is manage the spread to enable the NHS to cope.

People will die. It's harsh but it's evolution and survival of the fittest

This is absolute bollocks. Decisions made by people in power like Boris Johnson will directly effect how many people die.

Different countries taking different approaches have different death rates.

I've seen it estimated that the difference between a country losing 1% and 4% of the population is how prepared they are.

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OneTimePrepper · 12/03/2020 22:20

@Jellykat
What other countries? China have a communist regime so a total shut down is managable due to peoples fear. No other countries have implemented a full shutdown. Italy might have shut down, ditto France and several others in Europe but there is no evidence yet that it makes any difference to case increase.

somanydevices · 12/03/2020 22:20

Here is a chart of what the U.K. delay strategy will do. It’s not quite nothing, as it is estimated it will cut deaths by a third. It’s about slowing the epidemic so the NHS is not overwhelmed.

Where does that chart come from?

It says "introduce control measures". That's exactly what the UK should be doing, but isn't.

OP posts:
AutumnRose1 · 12/03/2020 22:20

OP

What would you like to see being done and for how long?

somanydevices · 12/03/2020 22:21

OneTimePrepper Norway is shutting down.

theweek.com/speedreads/901770/entire-country-norway-shutting-down

OP posts:
WhatKatyDidNot · 12/03/2020 22:22

I'm also in a high risk group and I also agree with Plan.

This is not an endorsement of Boris. It just is what it is. I'm going to semi self isolate, social distance and hope that people who won't die catch it and achieve herd immunity before it gets to me.

Whiffenpoofs · 12/03/2020 22:22

Completely agree OP. Currently living overseas in Singapore - a tiny city country that was one of the first hit (and at risk) by Corvus-19.

Even though they too were criticised for an initially slow response, the SG govt and PM have been absolutely ruthless in getting organised, heat-checking everyone (mass thermal and individual temp screening everywhere since Jan), tracing and managing supplies (including an organised provision of surgical masks to every household).

I do appreciate that Singaporeans generally have most trust in and are more compliant with the government instruction though, and it is a small country so easier to mobilise.

The thing I have been most impressed with is the PM's resilient stance - I am aghast at my own UK PM's response:

www.straitstimes.com/politics/pm-lee-to-address-nation-on-covid-19-situation-at-8pm

PlanDeRaccordement · 12/03/2020 22:23

Jellycat,
The virus hasn’t gone nationwide in every country that has it yet. Which is why the responses to it differ. And why are you assuming that these other countries are better than the U.K.? You do know many of these countries don’t have a national health service but have ones where you can literally die due to no healthcare. (USA for example). That could be driving their response as well as they will have more deaths.

frankie001 · 12/03/2020 22:23

I never want to hear “following the science” ever again.

PlanDeRaccordement · 12/03/2020 22:25

Also not a fan of Boris!

somanydevices · 12/03/2020 22:25

I dont understand why people are so upset the PM has said people will die

Because he basically said - people are going to die but I'm going to do fuck all about it. I'm not going to put people first, I'm going to let your love ones die while I protect the interests of big business.

And I'm going to confuse everyone by implying it'd actually be good if people get immunity, at a time when we should all be trying to stop the spread,

He's gambling with our lives, FFS. We should be rioting.

Stop being a subservient subject and open your eyes to how expendable this arsehole and his cronies thinks you and your family are. He just decided to stand by while we die.

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NotEvenTheKing · 12/03/2020 22:26

www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-mission-briefing-on-covid-19---12-march-2020

Second, detect, prevent and treat.
You can’t fight a virus if you don’t know where it is. That means robust surveillance to find, isolate, test and treat every case, to break the chains of transmission.

I'm not sure how letting it spread about helps with delaying its 'peak' whatever that means. Like, when is it the peak? How do we know?! My main concern is the serious lack of testing. And it is clear that this piece of advice from WHO isn't being carried out by our government. How is anyone meant to even know if the peak has been reached if they aren't even testing. They stood there and said they expect its more likely 10k of people infected.

It's clear that the virus is just floating around now, it does not matter if you've been to China or Italy now. Surely the statistics are still important? Isn't it wise to know if people are being infected that haven't travelled? I have no idea if closing the schools is what we should be doing. Or stopping sporting events. But what I do know is that more testing is needed. If only just to better understand the virus.

But I am just a sahm so I guess my opinion means little ... 🤷🏼‍♀️

NotEvenTheKing · 12/03/2020 22:28

Paragraph after link was meant to be bold. It's a direct quote from the link to the WHO speech from today.

Jellykat · 12/03/2020 22:28

'No new infections in Northern Italy ' just on BBC news..

You were discussing shutting schools and large scale events OneTimePrepper, NOT total lockdown! don't twist it now..