Raging at Boris Johnson's irresponsible response to Covid 19

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BJ said I must level with you, I must level with the British public: many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time

How fucking dare he. This kind of phrase belongs in a rousing speech where the public are asked to come together to do what we can to help prevent those deaths. e.g. not going to large events, doing social distancing.

Not one which says "business as usual".

There was a government adviser on the radio saying they've not banned sporting events because they're in the open and in sunlight.

What about those events undercover? Or after dark? If that's the case why aren't they banned?

They're saying they're acting on scientific advice, but they're adding a layer of interpretation which is about what they think is possible.

They lack faith in their ability to communicate what needs to be done to the population and they think we're all idiots who won't do it, basically. So they've taken the decision that they can't help people dying.

I don't know on what basis BJ and his government is making decisions, but it's not with our best interests at heart.

It's a "don't panic"'message from a government scared and disrespectful of the population, not leadership in a time of crisis.

Fucking raging.

I have another also hopeful theory. But now this is me being an armchair scientist! The countries where this is spreading the fastest are at 30-50 N latitude. Italy, Spain, Iran, S Korea and Japan. Maybe this virus likes it not too hot and not too cold. That means when it got to N Italy it just went boooom because it was in its ideal temperature range. That temperature range is going to slowly move north up Europe but maybe it will happen slower and give us a bit more time - almost help out with dampening the bell curve. Just a thought but gives me a bit of hope.

Bool what did you mean when you said we had a new chief scientist

Bool, they are talking about flattening the curve but are not implementing the measures required to actually achieve that. Other countries are. That's the difference.

Telling people with a cold to stay in for 7 days (when the incubation period is up to 14 days) and telling old people to avoid cruises is a laughably inadequate response.

@sakura7 ok I give up now. Did you watch the press conference? Self isolating with a cough or fever has a 25% effect. It is the BIGGEST effect. This is from the man that managed the Ebola crisis in Africa 2013-16. Why does Sakura7 know better than him?

And he explained precisely why 7 days. Please don’t comment if you don’t even bother listening to the experts

Christ on a bike Bool, as I have explained to you countless times, I am listening to the experts. Your problem is that I'm not listening exclusively to your British experts.

You're just parroting out content from the press briefing and presenting it as undisputed fact. The wider sceientific and medical community have highlighted the issues with the assumptions being made, but I suppose that means nothing.

Ultimately the UK govt is content for 60% of the population to get the virus and is accepting of the devastation it will cause. They don't need to accept this, the WHO is very clear that countries can take action to fight it. The UK is choosing not to. At best it's negligence and at worst it's a deliberate act of fascism.

a deliberate act of fascism

Ultimately the UK govt is content for 60% of the population to get the virus and is accepting of the devastation it will cause. They don't need to accept this, the WHO is very clear that countries can take action to fight it. The UK is choosing not to. At best it's negligence and at worst it's a deliberate act of fascism.

Oh for goodness sake. Fascism. Grow up.

This is what they are likely doing (riskier but possibly more beneficial). As you can see, the aim, right or wrong, is to preserve hospital space for the vulnerable groups:

twitter.com/iandonald_psych/status/1238518371651649538

I am unsure why you are relying on WHO, which is a desperately underfunded and highly politicised institution, as Gordon Brown pointed out the other day in the Guardian.

China might get a (worse) second wave. We might fuck it up and overwhelm the NHS. Hindsight would be nice but nobody has it.

Some of these posts would be hilarious if the situation wasn't so serious.

The WHO have been leading the global fight against this virus. You think their being underfunded is a reason to completely ignore all the research they've done? You think they are politicised but the UK CMO and CSO are not?

If you're going to use Gordon Brown to support your point, you might want to double check his actual position on this. He wrote in The Guardian today that populist governments working on their own individual strategies are dangerous, and that a global approach is needed. Who do think he's referring to?

Hundreds of medical and science experts have signed an open letter raising major concerns with the UK's inaction. Teachers unions are calling for the schools to be closed. People are taking matters into their own hands and the govt will be forced to adopt a common sense approach soon IMO.

You think they are politicised but the UK CMO and CSO are not?

You're not understanding the difference between institutional capture and individual bias.

I'm not the one shouting blue murder that one side is definitely wrong and the other side is definitely right: you are. It's like Brexit or climate change: suddenly the world is full of experts and our own biases make us pick one side over another when we actually don't know enough.

Those arguing with you on this thread, including me, have been at pains to point out there are no certainties, that much relies on human behaviour, which is hard to predict, and we won't know the rights and wrongs for a very long time.

You're the one doggedly certain where certainties don't exist. And as for fascism. Deary, deary me. You have no idea how much it pains me to make even a qualified - what with there being no certainties, you see - defence of anything Boris Bloody Johnson is anywhere near.

I don't understand them outrage at the government . If you want to socially distance yourself what is preventing you doing so? I am sure no school will issue fines for taking kids out of school and work will also be understanding of those who can work from home ........ concerts / sporting events may be on but the individual has the choice to attend or not?

I said it's either negligence/incompetence or a deliberate act. It may well be the former, but it's fair to question why the government is readily accepting 5 million cases requiring hospitalisation, 2 million of those critical and up to 500,000 deaths, when all other countries are taking actions to protect their citizens.

Yes there are unknowns, but the vast majority of experts internationally agree on the best approach to take in order to save as many lives as possible. A handful of British people in positions of power have decided not to follow that approach in the assumption that it's possible to achieve herd immunity. There is no evidence that this can be done, but you're willing to sacrifice 500,000 lives in order to give it a go?

This thread is mental. Thankfully the majority of people posting in the other threads in this section can grasp the reality and are doing what they can to protect themselves.

Thankfully the majority of people posting in the other threads in this section can grasp the reality and are doing what they can to protect themselves.

I've already told you that I'm in a high risk group and am posting from splendid isolation. And if you'd bothered to read the Twitter thread I posted, you'd see that a good criticism of the govt's current strategy, even if you think it the best one, is that they have not provided sufficiently clear advice to vulnerable groups.

chopc There are still going to be millions of other people going to school, commuting to work, etc. That will cause the virus to spread. All of society needs to buy in to this, that's not realistically going to happen without some kind of measures being introduced.

@Sakura7 which other European countries strategies do you think are currently working so much better? Looking at the latest numbers I would say we are all in the same inevitable boat. In fact countries such as France, Germany, Netherlands and Denmark (not to mention Spain and Italy) have higher rates than the UK of spread.

Yes Bool, the UK is slightly behind continental countries that are closer to Italy. However you can't expect restrictions that came into place two days ago to lead to a reduction in cases right now. The incubation period is up to 14 days. People testing positive today would have been infected prior to the restrictions. Let's see where Denmark, France and Ireland are in a few weeks compared to the UK. We have the example from China to show how this virus can be pushed back.

@JassyRadlett

“‘I do not like what this expert has said, and therefore he is not an expert.’ What a good example of the scourge of the last decade”

Except that’s not what I wrote. The “expert” has an agenda and is biased. The scientific data they claim to be basing their decision on is not being shared and other experts have no idea what the fuck they’re on about either.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/14/scientists-urge-government-to-enforce-social-distancing-now

“Hundreds of scientists have written to the government urging immediate “more restrictive measures” be brought in to enforce social distancing, following the action plan it announced on Thursday.

The 245 UK people supporting the open letter include scientists from a wide range of departments, while it is also backed by 29 international signatories.”

Spread scientific facts. Question politicians and their motives.